Are Men Intimidated by Women who can Hold their Own?
Blogger and frequent commenter, Susan, has a question I have heard now and again about the male response to “strong women.” She writes:
I’m an intelligent, independent, attractive woman — and have a host of other charming qualities. (I’m also quite modest when not writing.) Nonetheless, I often feel that the majority of men aren’t looking for those things. I used to joke with friends that my bad dating luck was because men are intimidated by my brains and beauty. Now, I’m not saying I’m Heidi Klum and I’m not a member of Mensa, but I’m a good catch. What’s your take — are men really intimidated by women who can hold their own?
(Note that you are funny, quite cute and can put a sentence together — and use spell check! – and I’m not intimidated by you at all.)
Dear Susan,
First of all — and reader requesters, I can’t stress this enough — the flattery in your closing is a VITAL part of getting a good manslation. Well done.
Now, to your question. I’ve actually been dreading getting this question a little. Partly because it’s a tough one to diagnose without knowing you personally. (Mostly it’s just that I had a female acquaintance who used to complain about this very thing, but her problem was that she was not only not very attractive, but she was also kind of a big, abrasive jerk. Which, you know, IS intimidating. To, like, everybody. And I’ve been terrified that SHE was going to find this website and ask this question.) But given your description of yourself and your situation, here are a couple things that I can tell you in general about this question. So…
QUESTION: Are men intimidated by smart, attractive women who can hold their own?
UNHELPFUL (but quick) ANSWER: Never the RIGHT men.
I know, that blows as advice, but hear me out. This sheds light on something about men that, in my experience as a manslator, seems foreign to women. Once I explain that, I can bring it back to better answer your question.
MYTH: SOME MEN HAVE A ONE-TRACK MIND
FACT: For most men, it’s actually two tracks.
See, some women seem to believe that there are some guys who are only after sex, and some others who are looking for relationships, and you’ve got to figure out who’s who. That’s not quite right. The real situation is more like, ALL men — nice guys, everyone — see the majority of women in one of two categories:
- The ones he wishes he could have sex with (i.e. virtually every woman he sees, seriously)
- The ones he wants to actually date…and have sex with. (i.e. a very small number of women.)
So, ALL men see the majority of women as sex objects, at least for a second or two. Instead of looking for the guy who sees “women” as more than sex objects, you’ve got to find the ones who see YOU, SPECIFICALLY as more than that. In addition to seeing you as a sex object. (Sorry, there’s just no way around that part.)
BACK TO YOUR SITUATION
So, if you’re kinda hot (and why would I not take your word for it?) the vast majority of male attention you get is going to be of the “sex only” kind. This is just because the vast majority of men at LEAST want sleep with you. It’s just how our brains work. Seeing even a marginally attractive woman and picturing ourselves having sex with her is just our brain’s way of saying “hi.”
However, that has nothing to do with the number of men who want to actually DATE you for who you are. Zero. Unfortunately, that’s always pretty much the same for everyone (as in, not too many people.) So, if you’re attractive, you’re going to be getting a lot of attention, but it seems to peter out. But the fact is, it was never serious attention in the first place.
YOU CAN SORT OF “INTIMIDATE” A GUY WHO DOESN’T REALLY LIKE YOU FOR YOU
Look, a guy who just wants to have sex with you might very well be “intimidated” by the fact that you’re kind of a bad ass. What they’re looking for is someone who is super easy to deal with for the purposes of nailing them. Think “predator stalking a herd of deer.” If the man is in this mode, he’s not going to be going for the strongest in the herd. This might be what you’re seeing — as in, a guy who pays a lot of attention to you, but when he figures out that you’re, you know, YOU, he bails in favor of some young bimbo who can’t count past eleventeen.
This leaves some women to think, “What went wrong? He must prefer someone who can’t actually speak intelligently, etc.?” Not exactly. He doesn’t actually “prefer” either you OR the bimbo. He wants to sleep with both of you, but with HER it will be simpler to bullshit his way into bed and ultimately bail out later. (I mean, give him this much credit — wouldn’t it be WAY harder to BS you than her? He got that right, right?)
So, “unfortunately” for you, the fact that you’re attractive means that you’re going to be forced to wade through plenty of guys who only want sex and nothing more. The good news is that the guys who want more than that will also be sort of guaranteed to want the sex part as well. So…that’s nice.
My sense of you from your comments here (and your website) is that you’re not going to change the way you are, regardless of what the men might be intimidated about. This is, of course, exactly the right way to go. I mean, think about it — you’re NEVER going to “intimidate” a guy who likes you for who you are by…being who you are. That’s just simple math, people.
Good luck, Susan. Keep being a bad ass. Yes, you might intimidate the wrong guys, but hey — isn’t that a good thing?
Women of the Manslatable World — what’s your experience with men being “intimidated” by you?
Posted: October 18th, 2007 under Reader Requests.
Comments
Comment from Jeff Mac
Time October 18, 2007 at 12:38 pm
Eric: Nah, I don’t think this is someone you know. But of course, now I’m wracking my brain to try to think of someone we know mutually who fits the description…
(Please, please don’t give me a hint. What if she reads this?!)
Comment from eric the beehivehairdresser
Time October 18, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Oh crap, that just means that there are two of her running around.
Comment from Susan
Time October 18, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Jeff, thanks for your insight and humor, as always. (Ladies: note the additional flattery.) Actually, a few things crossed my mind when I saw that photo – after I spit out my coffee laughing – and read your post:
1. I should have done about 800 bicep curls and shoulder presses instead of my yoga class today.
2. Didn’t all of Sarah Connor’s significant others die? Also note that I don’t think Linda Hamilton’s track record has been so hot, either. (Not what I’m trying to go for, BTW.)
3. Me, a bad ass?
The last thing I had been thinking when I wrote to you was that I would be in the bad ass category, but after years of being a people pleaser and worried about what I was doing “wrong,” I kinda like it. (Note: nice girls get rebellious sometimes.) I don’t know if your other readers have wondered the same, but I was sorting through conflicting personal experiences and research/opinions I’ve read over the years on whether men really are intimidated (maybe not the right word) by women who are independent and halfway intelligent. But you are absolutely right — it doesn’t really matter. I’ve learned enough to know that I don’t have to change “me” and don’t plan to. I want to attract someone who will appreciate good conversation and maybe a little sass (“…or I’ll kick his ass” – insert grin here.)
Now, excuse me. I’m going back to the gym and then the firing range, maybe save the world after another cup of coffee. I must prepare to protect you and Eric from your mysterious gal pal(s)..
Comment from Dating Goddess
Time October 18, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Jeff:
Once again, such good, thoughtful advice couched in your one-of-a-kind humor (notice the kissing up ladies).
I have some input to offer — what a surprise! I, and I’m sure many (if not all) of your readers see myself in Susan’s description. I, too, have felt I intimidated some men. As you point out, this can actually be a good thing! It hasn’t slowed down the every flowing pipeline of men into my dating site email box, and I am currently in various stages of getting to know 4 men. So strong women can be appealing — and not just to those who want a mommy or to be dominated.
But in some recent research, I came across the work of Alison Armstrong and her “Understanding Men, Celebrating Women” courses. One thing that is relevant to this issue is that strong women are sometimes reticent to receive. Because we can open our own doors, pay for our own half of the check, and make our way quite nicely in the world, there’s no room for a guy to think he can contribute to us in any way outside of the bedroom. So we come across all Linda Hamilton, when really if we’d let a guy give us something — even something simple like buying our coffee on a first meeting — he feels there’s some room for him to be appreciated by you.
If you want to know more on this, see the posting “Are you open to receiving?”
http://datinggoddess.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/are-you-open-to-receiving/ . (Two related postings are “Do men want feisty women?” http://datinggoddess.wordpress.com/2007/04/24/do-men-want-feisty-women/ and “The strong vs. nice woman debate” http://datinggoddess.wordpress.com/2007/08/01/the-strong-vs-nice-woman-debate/)
Jeff, is Alison all wet, or is this part of the issue?
Dating Goddess
Adventures in Delicious Dating After 40
Comment from Jeff Mac
Time October 18, 2007 at 9:22 pm
Susan: Hey, not all bad asses use automatic weapons or do one-armed pullups. There’s a such a thing as a WIT bad ass. At least I hope there is, or I’m REALLY never going to be a bad ass.
And yes, Sarah Connor’s loved ones did not fare well. Ok, bad picture for this one.
DG: I think Alison makes a great point. Absolutely — men are definitely into the whole “utility” thing. As in, if you don’t have a use for us, why are we here? Not that you have to be a damsel in distress. But even Sarah Connor needed someone to show her how to make plastic explosives…
And thanks so much for the links!
Comment from Theatregal
Time October 19, 2007 at 1:45 am
My Mom used to say to me that she didn’t know where I came from and that I should have been born in1935 and she should have been borb in 1958 because if she had it to do over again…..she never would have gotten married or had children. There isn’t a maternal bone in her body. She always told me to just live with a gut, don’t get married. Even though I have NEVER had any burning career am,bitions…probably never will, I still am very sure of who I am and what I believe for myself. Not so workable in Mom’s day and age. I think the pedulum has swung from the subordinate wife ( Mom’s day) to the EQUAL man and woman. ( my day) Now I think, for me and some other women, there’s a middle ground. Just because I actually enjoyed being a Mom and a wife ( chose the wrong guy) doesn’t make me any les or more than the woman who likes working. I raised about 40 or 50 kids over 20 years, so I could stay home. Now my kids are grown. I’m divorced, which had nothing to do with my life choices. My ex and are were too young to realize how extremely different our values were. We’re friends who were together 25 years and married 20. We’ve been divorced almost 7 years. He’s never been that into sex. I have. His girlfriends seem fine to him as lng as they have a job and leavbe him alone. But he can’t be completely alone. He’s told me our problem was I felt too much and was too intense for him. I love the books “Intimate Communion”, by David Deida and “Enchanted Love” , by Marrianne Williamson. Basically, I am a very strong woman who doesn’t need a label about a career or job to define me. I like Polarity between the sexes. Too much equality makes things Platonic and boring. That doesn’t mean things can’t switch back and forth a little. But in order for the fire to flare, I need to be the woman and the man to be the man. That doesn’t mean we don’t share and help one another in situations as they come up. But I love my man to be a man. That doesn’t mean “in charge”. It depends on the people involved, but there needs to be someone with a more masculine essence and one with a more feminine essence, gay straight, it doesn’t matter. If too much alike, your friends and that’s all. I like the fire and the passion. I don’t get that from a bud. Just my opinion.
Comment from Susan
Time October 19, 2007 at 6:10 am
Jeff, I like the photo — really! I’m liking the witty bad ass distinction. I would agree with Theatregal in the sense that I want a man to be a man. And I am with DatingGoddess that I’m all open for receiving attention and warmth. What I need is someone who doesn’t mind a woman with her own interests, job, thoughts, etc., too. But there is a balance — I was married to someone who was sort of emotionally comatose. Since I was independent and he was off doing his own thing and we didn’t connect below the surface (much to my dismay), we ended up 2 people living under the same roof and not much more. That wasn’t cool either. Anyhoo, thanks for the add’l comments. Keep up the good work, Jeff. I’ll be watching you…sorry, couldn’t help myself 
.
Comment from Jeff Mac
Time October 19, 2007 at 9:11 am
Theatregal: Yeah, it does seem like there’s a swing back toward the separation. There was a while there where it was, “Men & Women are different,” and then, “Men and Women are NO different, dammit!” and now it seems like we’re back to, “Ok, Ok, men and women are sometimes kind of different.” And I totally agree — I like the polarity as well.
Susan: Yeah, I’ve been in the “roommate relationship” as well. Mmm…no thanks. (Also, fyi, for your closing, we also would have accepted, “Ah’ll be Bahk.”)
Comment from Sian
Time October 22, 2007 at 2:58 pm
So…Jeff …are you single?
Comment from Jeff Mac
Time October 23, 2007 at 6:27 am
Sian: I am, in fact, very not single. And incredibly lucky. In a way, that’s why I’m writing this now — I finally see what a relationship looks like when it’s right (and can compare and contrast it with…uh….all that came before.)
Pingback from This Friday’s Public Service Announcement « One-Woman Show
Time October 26, 2007 at 9:56 am
[...] Jeff answered one of my questions and called me a bad ass (in the best sense of the term — or so he says). For that, I love him… just not in a [...]
Comment from amurray
Time October 26, 2007 at 6:44 pm
95 % OF MEN DO NOT SEE A WOMAN AS AN EQUAL,ONLY A SCORE.HUMANITY IS NOT IN THEIR VOCABULARY WHEN IT COMES TO WOMEN. SAD BUT TRUE. THE 5%THAT DO SEE WOMAN AS REAL HUMANS CAPABLE OF FEELING FOR MORE THAN SEX ARE USUALLY UGLY AND NEEDY. SO WHATS LEFT- 0-
Comment from Jeff Mac
Time October 27, 2007 at 12:57 pm
amurray: Well, the important thing is that you’re not bitter about it…ha ha.
Comment from Theatregal
Time October 28, 2007 at 6:18 am
I think it all has to do with what “equal” means to whom. Like I said before, I believe in sexual polarity. If we are exactly the same, there is no fire. This doesn’t mean one can’t be equal in most ways. In bed, I love the man to be the man, and I like to be the woman. That’s me. Everyone’s different. I suggested two books previously. I’d never read books like these where I finally didn’t feel weird because I’m not into ambition or career. I loved being a wife and Mom. I never wanted to be anything else. As I said before, my Mom never could figure out where I came from. I love how and who I am. Another good book besides, “Intimate Communion, Awakeing your Sexual Essence”, by David Deida and “Enchanted Love, The Mystical Power of Intimate Relationships”, by Marianne Williamson, is “Why We Love, the Nature and Chemistry of Romantic Love”, by Helen Fisher. This one is written by a Ph.D in Anthropology. Very interesting. We’re all who we were born to be. Some have a more masculine essence, some a more femimine essence, male or female born. Straight or gay. What makes relationships exciting, is having one of each. I have a very female essence. Men with a more male essence is what turns me on. For some, what Deida refers to as the “50/50 relationship, Safe Boundaries and Equal Expectations for Men and Women,” feels best. Like I said before, I feel it’s boring. To each his own.That’s just me.
Comment from Black Ops Bob
Time October 31, 2007 at 9:06 am
Why didnt i ACT on my feelings when i had the chance?
ref: punch you in the MOUTH yo . . . all your wordy word words are giving me a headache
Comment from Bobbie
Time November 1, 2007 at 10:34 am
I just found this site- great stuff. I am that woman. My guy friends tell me I am a hottie at 46??!! I have a great career and lots of stuff but it attracts guys that want a free ride or others that say’ you have everything so I dont know what to get you!!!!????? Whre to take you..etc.. I think they are intimidated. I think a successful woman emasculates a man – what do you think?
There are a few good guys out there but the only one I like does not live in BIrmingham Alabama.
Comment from Jeff Mac
Time November 1, 2007 at 9:37 pm
Black Ops Bob: How…frustrating for you?
Bobbie: Yeah, guys are into the whole “utility” thing. As in, if you don’t have a use for us, we don’t know…you know…what USE you have for us. (Thanks for stopping by!)
Comment from TheFlamingVirgin
Time January 24, 2008 at 5:23 am
THIS is so late to the thread, but I just stumbled upon the site *I’ve been reading it for 5 hours now*
Wow, I thought that it was just me who held this opinion, and that I was a genius, but now I know that 1) Jeff is a genius and 2) I’m pretty darn good for figuring this one out without him
THIS is my story with guys: Guys see me, they gawk, they check out my butt, THEN… my face, they approach me with some pick-up line that is weeeeeak sauce… and I totally crush them with my merciless sarcasm. Then they get pissed off and bail.
I’m not Top Model material or anything, but I do think I’m pretty and with an undergrad 4.0 GPA, I KNOW I’m smart. But I also am an athlete who can kick a dude’s butt and outwit him, and guys don’t like that. Not if they’re on a conquest. They want what’s quick and easy. Only guys who are on your level, and who really like you for you, are willing to work for your attention and affection.
And THAT will take some time.
Comment from Jeff Mac
Time January 24, 2008 at 1:28 pm
TheFlamingVirgin: I’m so glad that you’re as much of a genius as I am! There are so few of us around, and it’s important to recognize it.
Seriously, it’s a good thing to know. You’re YOU, and you don’t want to waste any time trying to dress yourself up to be attractive to someone who’s looking for somebody else.
And if by “not Top Model material” you mean that you’re not self-obsessed with a 58 IQ, then I’d say that goes in the “Pro” column, not the “Con” column.
Pingback from What if He is Intimidated By You, Revisited « Manslations
Time February 28, 2008 at 6:40 am
[...] really. I mean, I’ve heard this one before. A lot, actually. And it always puzzles me. I mean, guys just don’t really operate that way. [...]
Comment from Rose
Time May 8, 2008 at 10:42 am
The one man you are meant to be with will ove EVERYTHING
Comment from Shandra
Time May 13, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Seriously! Thank you J-Mac!
The truth will set you free! I am similar to Susan (smart, funny and hot) and the interest dies down after the initial blast of attention. Now that I understand that sex rather than dating is the ultimate goal by [MOST] men, it makes me feel so much better. Keep doing what you’re doing…you are brilliant.
Comment from Barbara Doduk
Time June 25, 2008 at 5:17 pm
This was a perfect answer. I am going to link to this post in a future post on my blog, because you sum up the reality of what it is like for women out there trying to find that guy who “wants to actually date…and have sex with” them.
I’ll be back.
Comment from Treasa
Time August 5, 2008 at 12:51 pm
I am in the same situation as Susan. Actually seeing that picture above made me laugh because my most recent ex said I had the “Sarah Conner complex”. I’m a badass and intimidate guys. Boy friends that I have (and I have a lot) have even told me that they thought about dating me but decided we are better off friends. I get that a lot. I have since then thought that there is something wrong with me and guys like the whole damsel in distress thing. Once they find out that’s not me they bail, and fast. Sometimes I still think there is something wrong with me because I can relate to guys and their interests more than women’s. I used to think this was a good thing, but it seems to drive more men away than attract them. This site actually helped me out a bit and even though I had nothing to do with this question being asked, thanks everyone for your comments!
Comment from ThenAgain
Time October 31, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Hey, thanks for your insight and friendly encouragement. From a broken-hearted, attractive, over-educated woman married to a Russian Neanderthal. Seriously.
But your words make me feel hopeful again. Thank you.
Pingback from manslations » Is He Scared of Her?
Time January 12, 2009 at 6:34 am
[...] talked about men being intimidated by strong women before, but here’s a case when…well, it might just be true. Or he might [...]
Pingback from PSA for Single Gals Everywhere (maybe a few married ones, too) | One-Woman Show by Susan Courtad | writing, juggling, life, laundry, love
Time February 8, 2009 at 10:10 pm
[...] Jeff’s humor and style, take a look at how he helped me — yes, me! — manslate if men are initimated by women who can hold their own (note my awesome biceps in the photo) and what it means when men express their feelings to a [...]
Comment from Ben
Time July 10, 2009 at 9:13 pm
This is some of the stupidest shit that feminist come up with. It doesn’t mean that men are intimidated just because the want to have sex and a girl doesn’t want to give it to him, so he he leaves. It reeks with an Affirming the Consequent fallacy. What lame reverse-psychology.
It could also be this. Too many women become ball busting, career oriented only, always has an opinion, loud mouth, always comparing what they don’t have compared to men, bitches. Believe it not, if you were truly smart, you would know that this isn’t sexy. Despite the name of feminism, feminism has nothing to do with femininity which is something that attract guys–surprise!
This isn’t to say that one shouldn’t have confidence or can’t hold a decent conversation, or have an opinion, etc.
These girls glamorize that they are “so smart,” “so high and mighty,” “that they don’t need men,” they can take care of themselves,” yet moan that they can’t get a man. If the knew as much as they thought they did they wouldn’t be in the predicament.
Comment from mmagnolia
Time July 11, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Dear Ben… with..
MerciBouquets, Michael, 4That Benly Tune!
Okay, perhaps Your week’s ending was less than stellar…but, there’s another one coming! Hope that above woe isn’t because some “girl” refused 2give “it”.
Some honest chitchat must = AWOL when someone who wants sex ends up w/someone who doesn’t!
Master Ben [familiarity, ok!], Your lingo of “girl” as *women* is belittled by Your absent lingo of “boy” as *men*. That seems 2ignore the routine maturation of females as women BUT presumes the routine maturation of males as men [am saying so as a past/present/future Girl!].
Thousand pardons if U’re beng misread;
if so, t’is reflection of Your own comments.
BTW…just as “femininity” is attractive 2men, *masculinity* attracts women!
Moaning absence of “a man” is psycho-emotionally rightful if NO man who acts as a *Man* is present. Same is true when men moan absence of a *Woman*. The moaning isn’t about physical presence! A thousand males counted as present doesn’t mean that there’s ONE Man in the room! No offense, of course.
It’s wise that we “glamorize” every good facet , but recognize the reality that often it’s only diamonds which shine w/54!
Dear Ben, Peace+Joy onU!
Comment from Zoe
Time November 23, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Finally, a male’s take on something that has perplexed me for years. I am a strong independent woman. Rarely do I find a date who can keep my gaze or have a great conversation with me over dinner without being tongue-tied or just plain awkward. It is so unattractive and above all sad, because some of these guys actually had real potential otherwise. My best advice to guys is – it doesn’t matter how hot, intelligent, talented, strong, etc. a woman is or isn’t, we all want the same things. We want a man who can look us in the eye, have a reciprocal interested conversation, who can express interest either verbally or in a cue he gives, is respectful while at the same time free to speak his opinions, a protector, and someone that makes us want to be around them. We aren’t going to bite your head off, I promise. Just be you, be confident and assertive, and chances are, you’ll do fine. DO NOT get shy, nervous, overly passive, too aggressive, clingy, or needy, or too casual on early dates. Respect yourself and care about yourself and we’ll feel that and respond to it.
Comment from eric the beehivehairdresser
Time October 18, 2007 at 11:13 am
Jeff I’m hoping that the mystery female acquaintance that you refer to is the very same one that I’m thinking of…oh boy…shudder…