Reader Request: The Progressively Pervy Dude? Why?
Ladies, this is a record. I think this makes four awesome questions from Manslations All Star Loiralei. (People will say we’re in love, Clareeeeece.) Here’s another excellent question. What happens when he starts off normal, and then becomes…NOT — sexually. A sort of…sexual wolfman, if you will. (Hey, it’s Halloween, people. Get in the spirit of the season, won’t you?)
Actually, this “sexual” behavior doesn’t seem to be sexual at all. It’s imitative. Check it out –she writes:
Jeff,
I know you LOVE your naughty sex googlers and that you are very knowledgable about sex and men. I have a sex question – get ready.. I hope you don’t blush! What do you say or do with a guy who starts out being fairly “normal” in bed then becomes freakier, weirder and kinkier? Say you really LIKE this guy out of bed and he seems pretty good in every other way but the requests and actions are getting sicker, creepier and almost bordering on abusive. For example: constant demands for oral sex to be performed on him all the time and in strange places even to the point of forcefully trying to push my head ‘down there’ etc.. constant demands for backdoor sex even though I told him I wasn’t interested in that kind of uncomfortable ‘lovemaking’ etc.. He even all of a sudden hoisted himself up and tried slapping my face with his member once in the middle of it. I thought THAT was weird! Need I describe more? What can you say to stop or curb this behavior without sounding like a prude?
Are all men like this? Maybe I AM a prude. Please tell me!
Dear Loiralei,
Yes, I do love the naughty lady googlers, Loiralei. God help me, I do love them so. And I will try not to blush too hard.
WHERE DID THIS BEHAVIOR COME FROM? UH…WELL, WHERE’S THE INTERNET AGAIN?
Ok, here’s my manslation. This behavior is the result of having seen a lot of…adult films. (I don’t want to say the more common name for these gems because I think “adult film” sounds as decorous as such works of art suggest — nay, DEMAND. Plus, I’m trying to keep all your office spywares from blocking me.) ALL the situations you’re describing are some of the “stock moves” in…adult entertainment. (I mean, so I’ve read. In very smart, leatherbound books…about the economy. It was in the footnotes…sigh.)
There must be SOME kind of attraction to these specific behaviors for men, or else this wouldn’t be such a multi-bazillion dollar a year industry. These moves are not my brand, but I think that this branch of the industry is along the lines of the “I’m such a bad ass that I use a woman like a tool and they all LOVE it — look what I got THIS ONE to do!” fantasy. It seems to involve both humiliation and domination. Personally, I’ve never gotten into the “humiliation” thing as a fantasy, on either the giving OR the receiving end. (I kind of feel like, isn’t life humiliating enough?) But I know that some people seem to like it.
And I suppose that there are some dudes who are so addled that they actually believe that because these actresses (you there, stop laughing! These are serious thespians!) seem to go crazy for this stuff, well, why shouldn’t YOU? Oh man, even just typing that makes me sad. But I’m sure those guys are out there.
And hey, there are women (in real life, with hairdos and George Forman grills and jobs) out there who DO want to be treated like this. M’kay. Whatever people are into is fine, as long as everybody in the room is fine, right?
ARE ALL MEN LIKE THIS?
No. I mean, a lot of guys watch these cinema classics, but no, all guys don’t want to do those specific acts. Not at all.
Then again, how would I know what guys like? Men don’t talk about sex as much as women think we do. The reason? Well, why would I tell my idiot friend about my specific sexual stuff? What’s the goal? What — if I describe it really well, I’ll get to sit in the room with a guy with an erection? Yeah, where’s the upside in THAT?
DOES THIS MEAN YOU’RE A PRUDE?
No, you’re not a prude for not liking this stuff or anything else. Further, if you don’t want to do this stuff, you do NOT have to feel weird about saying, “Listen, I’m up for discussing anything, but this stuff is not ok with me, and here’s why.” I’d recommend bringing this up in a cool-headed moment, and not in the heat of passion so you can actually find out what’s going on.
Hey, who knows where an honest discussion of this will take you? Maybe if you get him to actually explain this desire, he’ll realize that even HE doesn’t know why he’s doing it and he’ll stop. Or maybe he’s got a really specific fantasy about this stuff, and once he describes it, it will actually sound hot to YOU. Who knows? Weirder things have happened. But if you’re just flat NOT into something, he’s GOT to respect that. If he doesn’t, drop him now. Like, yesterday. Because if he doesn’t respect what you need, uh, it’s not going to get any better. And obviously it has the potential to get a LOT worse.
EVERYBODY WINS, OR EVERYBODY LOSES
Look, for a sexual relationship to work, both parties (or all three, if you happen to swing that way) have to be cool with whatever’s going on. Everybody should feel like their fantasies are at least welcome as FANTASIES. And everybody should feel like they have every right to say not only, “I want this,” but also, “I’m not ok with THAT.” And no guy worth ANYTHING will EVER have a problem with that. Any guy has a problem with that, he’s not worth the breath it’s going to take to dump him.
WARNING: If this man is of the “douchebag” persuasion (don’t know why I’m not worried about your office computer blocking THAT one, but they can have my use of the word “douchebag” when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers) he might very well try to make you feel like you ARE a prude if you’re not into this. (He might even pull an Anger Smokescreen about it.) If that is his reaction to this conversation, you have my blessing to end this immediately with a very, very clear conscience. Anybody who would try to shame you into something in bed is either James Spader in a 1980’s teen movie, or a serious asswipe. Or both.
Good luck, Loiralei! If he ever explains this behavior, please report back. I’d love to know what this is about.
Manslatees — ever had a guy suddenly turn freaky-deaky? What did you do? (And Happy Halloween, ladies!)
Posted: October 31st, 2007 under Reader Requests.
Comments
Comment from Shelby
Time October 31, 2007 at 1:12 pm
I have a friend who knew a guy like this… He was extreme. Yes, you can both indulge in fantasy so long as it dosen’t harm either party, but this guy took things to another level, both physically and verbally. And I have to agree with Jeff on this one. Because you know how she met him? Guess! At an adult strip club where she worked. Not that all guys who frequent these clubs are like this, but any guy who does things to you he wouldn’t do to farm animals isn’t worth your time (or the price of the Advil the next day.)
Comment from singlemomseeking
Time October 31, 2007 at 1:14 pm
You said it Susan! Here’s to ditching the men who are “constantly demanding”…. instead of asking. Didn’t this guy’s mama teach him any manners? What happened to asking for permission first?
Blush, blush, I’ve been with some out-there men, too. But the reason I enjoyed myself was because he communicated. That’s the end-all-be-all of good sex: good communication.
As in, “Hey, baby, how would you feel if I _______________?”
It can make all the difference in the world.
Comment from Terry
Time October 31, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Are you a prude? Uh, no. Are all men like this? Definitely not.
Read your own words, L:
“…but the requests and actions are getting sicker, creepier and almost bordering on abusive.”
This is where you’re almost telling the truth, indicating that his actions are “bordering on abusive.” But they’re not bordering abusive, they are abusive.
As Jeff mentioned, the guy is a total asswipe, no matter how “pretty good” he seems otherwise. He’s a deviant (forcing your head is not merely pervy, it’s sexual assault).
If you say no, it’s no. You’re not a prude for taking exception to letting some loser slap you around with his penis (which I suspect is on the smallish side).
Before I got married, I dated quite a bit. I even dated my fair share of, shall we say, substandard men, but I only came across this kind of behavior once, at which point I got out of the fool’s car. He seemed “pretty good,” too, and he sure was good-looking. But he never laid eyes on me again.
The guy you’re dating is not interested in your feelings, and he sure as hell doesn’t care about your pleasure (yeah, sex is supposed to feel good to you, too).
He sounds dangerous, and I wouldn’t be surprised if his psycho behavior escalates. Hit the highway.
Comment from Ronnie
Time October 31, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Wow, this is a ghoulish post! Jeff, it’s always fun visiting.
I must agree with everyone. Terry put it so well – hit the highway. Who needs a demanding man bordering on abusive? Not worth it honey. Who needs anyone devoid of the reciprocity concept?
Jeff suggested a conversation during a cool moment. OK, you never know and it’s certainly worth a try. Do it very soon. Maybe even today. But any flack and Run Don’t Walk is my advice.
You know this isn’t acceptable behavior or you wouldn’t have written to Jeff. Listen to your intuition and your heart. Move on to find the love you deserve.
Pingback from Ghoulish Post on Manslations about Pervy Dude
Time October 31, 2007 at 3:04 pm
[...] there is a creepy Halloween posting on Jeff’s Manslations blog today. Perfect for the ghoulish events of the day. I was lucky during my dating [...]
Comment from anonymouse
Time October 31, 2007 at 8:28 pm
Humph…timely. Thanks for asking Lorialei and thanks for answering Jeff. This stuff is not ok with me either and now I’m armed with a strategy to deflect it.
Comment from Jeff Mac
Time November 1, 2007 at 6:28 am
Susan: Yes, “constantly demanding” would seem to indicate that there’s something weird going on.
Shelby: I think you can also safely exclude the man who does things to you he WOULD do to farm animals.
singlemomseeking: Agreed — asking for something specific is HOTTT. For us too.
Terry: Point taken, but I have to say, I certainly know plenty of people who are into stuff that is FAR more…adventurous, shall we say? Stuff that would have me calling the cops. The only difference is — they really like it. And as long as THEY’RE cool with it, great. But yes, it goes without saying that if Loiralei is not ok with what he’s doing and he’s not ok with THAT, she needs to get out, STAT.
Ronnie: Yep, this conversation I’m suggesting would be something where, well, if this guy has a problem with talking about this stuff, you know exactly where he stands.
anonymouse: I’m glad you have some ammo, and just in time! (And with a “humph” no less!)
Comment from Theatregal
Time November 1, 2007 at 8:05 am
Hey , “What’s normal”, is what’s okay for you. If it’s not …say so. If it feels abusive, tell him and don’t go there. Having said that…..I didn’t read anything that sounded that weird to me. We’re not all the same. What’s erotic for some, is disgusting for others. You have to find someone you match up with or who listens to you well. If he loves you enough, he won’t need to continue to push the envelope, if you’re not comfortable. I’ve tried a few things that to some women may seem outside the norm. I was asked first! If I liked it…great. if not, forget it. Never again. If he loves and respects you, it’s not a big deal to say, ” That doesn’t sound good to me.”
Comment from Terry
Time November 1, 2007 at 9:37 am
I agree with you, Jeff.
If two people are happy with adventurous action, I say go for it. But when someone uses the words “abusive” and “creepier,” I fear she’s trying to talk herself into something she doesn’t want to do.
I love this column and your perspective.
Comment from Susan
Time November 1, 2007 at 6:51 pm
I heard about this on the radio this a.m.: wool bondage suits and willy warmers by the local knitting club of German women….and what did I think of first? THIS POST. Here’s the article. Thought you might enjoy it.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22678995-5012895,00.html
Comment from Susan
Time November 1, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Sorry, too fast on the submit button. I meant I hope you enjoy the article, but, hey, the holidays are coming up, so if this is your thing, you’re in luck.
Comment from Jeff Mac
Time November 1, 2007 at 9:44 pm
Terry: Again — point totally taken. She most definitely could be trying to talk herself into something. And I sure hope she’s not.
Susan: Yeah, if there’s one thing that’s been missing from the world of S&M, it’s some nice, itchy WOOL. Ugh. Thanks a lot, Susan. I’ll never look at a sweater in the same way again…ugh.
Comment from Susan
Time November 2, 2007 at 8:50 am
You’re welcome, Jeff. Enjoy the cool breezes of fall! 
Comment from Loiralei
Time November 2, 2007 at 11:19 am
I did ask him why he was so insistent on these particular sexual requests. (I realize that for some maybe even most it isn’t too outlandish or even demeaning). His answer was, “All women love this”! I said “No..” He said again with the same insistent tone, “ALL women LOVE this”! (So…I guess I’m not a woman)? He was into porno very much so… He owned his own business and once when I visited him in his office he locked the door, brought up porno on his office computer and proceeded to pull it out and yank it in front of me requesting I help him etc.. I was very disturbed because he had women employees right in the next room working, who I was worried could hear our conversation. I told him, “No WAY!” And ran out of the room which made him angry. Yes, he did make me feel like I was abnormal. He said I was “simple”. The clincher was when he showed me a video he just bought of farm animal sex with humans and suggested we watch together. His excuse for this one was, “Honey you’ll like this one you love animals I bought it for you!” NOT…! He soon after told me he was seeing other people. I said enough is enough! I wasn’t and couldn’t even imagine having sex with him again anyway it was ALL too creepy, crawly, yucky, well, you get my drift! Happy Halloween but unfortunately this is a true story.. Thanks again Jeff and girls. I just pity his next victim! The creepiest thing is he really seemed in the beginning like a good catch but in reality was really a monster like a Jekel and hyde!
Comment from Susan
Time November 2, 2007 at 11:26 am
Loralei….just happened to check back on this. Ewwwwww. I’m glad you ran (and I’m guessing you ran fast). You deserve much, much more than this asswipe. (Farm animals do, too. Ewwwwwww.) Don’t give it another thought, be glad you are DONE with this one.
Comment from Jeff Mac
Time November 2, 2007 at 12:25 pm
Loiralei: Boy, thank god you met this guy — how else would you know what ALL women love? Oh man, talk about believing everything you see on TV.
By the way, if you’ll notice, this is a bit of the “Anger Smokescreen” right there. As in, “Listen, I don’t know what the problem is, but it’s obviously YOUR issue, sister.” Hilarious. As Bugs Bunny might say, “What a maroon.”
Susan: Thanks for giving props to the farm animals. You’re right. They deserve far better than this douchenozzle.
Comment from Susan
Time October 31, 2007 at 11:50 am
Ok, I started to read this (at work no less) and thought, Man, I really must get out more. I really must get…something with someone. But then I kept reading and when I got to the “tried slapping my face with his member once in the middle of it” I thought, “Uh…maybe not.” Loralei, please explain what his explanation is; this I’d like to know. I’ve been in less extreme versions of the first 2 examples, and yeah, I think it was half-fantasy, half too much “adult film viewing” going on. But this guy, whether you like him or not, sounds like he’s being a royal pain in the ass if he’s constantly bugging you about these things, with little regard to your feelings and it sounds like making you feel bad about it. (I’ll forego the obvious puns in the above sentence.) “Constantly demanding” is not cool at all, regardless of his explanation. Happy Halloween…