Are These Two Friends, Or Is There More?
It’s the age-old story — you both like each other, you flirt, you room together, but you don’t move it to the next level. Throw in Molly Ringwald, and you’ve got a hit movie of the 80′s. But what’s REALLY going on with this “friend” of hers? How do you know if your best pal is, in fact, maybe your should-be man? Read on to find out.
MANSLATOR’S NOTE: We’ve got another LONG-ish request, and so I’m-a summarize first.)
- They met through an online ad for casual encounters, have been inseparable ever since…but no nooky….yet.
- Decided to become roommates.
- They’re very different, and yet they have more in common than she’s had with anyone else.
- A few weeks into their friendship, he told her he wasn’t into a sexual relationship, even though they clearly seem to have similar sexual appetites, interests, and views toward dating/relationships.
- They have “tension-filled erotic moments” when they will “drink together, occasionally ending up in each other’s arms.” But no more physical than that.
- Both have said they don’t want to have sex to avoid ruining the friendship.
- Both continue to have other sexual relationships, and they speak about it openly.
- The problem? She’s falling for him. (Manslator’s Note: Anybody shocked? Gosh, I know I am.)
- ADDENDUM (sent in 1 day later): Hello. Wanted to add to my manslation request from yesterday. Had sex with the wonderful roommate last night. It wasn’t great sex (performance anxiety on my part, ya know?) but it happened. However, it doesn’t change the situation, except perhaps to make it more complicated. We’ve both talked before about how sex is possible between two friends without necessarily leading to more. Uggh.
Dear Sally,
Sounds like you’ve got yourself the makings here, ain’tcha? Whew. What to do, what to do. Ok, here’s my take:
LET’S NOT RUIN THE FRIENDSHIP WITH SEX…
What does this one mean when a guy says it? Well, speaking very generally, it’s got a couple of possible meanings:
- He’s totally attracted to you, and in fact he DOES want a sexual relationship, but thinks it would be bad to tell you that.
- He is not attracted to you sexually, but still wants to be pals.
- He’s a super-nice guy and would never want a sex-only relationship with you because he doesn’t see you that way.
Which ones can we rule out?
Well, it ain’t number 2. He’s clearly able to find you sexually attractive. And it ain’t number 3 because he doesn’t seem to have a problem with sex-only encounters with all the other ladies he’s been out with. Seems like we’re left with #1. He’s attracted to you but he knows it’s a bad idea to let you know that he wants to do you. It fits. But what’s the reason?
WHY MIGHT HE DO THIS?
What might be some reasons for a guy to feel like his sexual desire for you is something he should deny? There are a few possibilities, but what they all likely boil down to is this:
- He figures you won’t let him have a sex-only encounter. (In this case, you seem to have said as much yourself.) And he’s not 100% in the market for anything else.
Here’s the thing. He LIVES with you. If he wanted to date you and only you, most guys wouldn’t be parading their sexual exploits past you. Most guys would either hide that from you, knowing that it would tend to make them look bad in your eyes…or they’d, you know, not DATE other women. Cuz they want to be with you, see.
My guess? Sounds like you’re his home gal. You’re the one he likes to talk to after he spends time with women he sleeps with. He feels comfortable with you. He feels close to you. But he doesn’t value you enough to become exclusive with you. Seems like he did his best (i.e. not too great) to avoid sleeping with you. However, he is a dawg and you were clearly available. And since you’ve made it pretty clear (with your words anyway) that you weren’t interested in him, he probably was able to convince himself that you’d sleep with him and not get too attached.
COULD HE BE SERIOUS?
Well, it’s possible. In the same way that it’s possible that the noise you hear in the night is the ghost of Paul Revere. Or it could just be the wind. Which is more likely?
He doesn’t seem to be giving off too many signs of that. He’s allowing you to know all about the other women he sleeps with. He’s telling you that he doesn’t want sex with you. He’s not getting pouty or jealous or weird when he hears about men YOU’RE with. It doesn’t point to a very passionate interest level. However, that’s just me. He could see things very, very differently from the way that I do.
Sounds like you really like him, and you really value him as a friend. I’d say that your friendship can survive, even through this, after some time. But as for a relationship? I wouldn’t count on one. Not long-term. Possible, there are always exceptions, but it wouldn’t be classic male behavior. But either way, your way through this is to accept what happened, and go from there. If you try to bury this, you’re not going to be very happy. But if you push him for a relationship, he might go along to avoid you hating his guts. But as I say, he’s not giving off “I’m super serious” vibes. He seems to be giving off, “I’m trying to get away with something,” vibes. You could let him if you weren’t serious about dating him. But it sounds like that’s not so likely.
Good luck, Sally. I’m sorry I don’t have a more optimistic take on things, but my Spider Senses are tingling. I’d say you’re headed for an awkward (but totally possible) reentry into the Friend Zone.
What do you think, manslatees? Is this guy for real, or should she be looking for a new roomie?
—————–
complete text:
I met my best guy friend through an online ad for casual encounters. He responded to me, we met for a movie, and have been basically inseparable ever since. A few months after we met, we decided to become roommates, and it’s working out really well. I’m a well-educated, fairly financially-stable professional, and he’s an unemployed “free spirit” who never finished college, but our personalities work well together. I have more in common with him than with any other man I’ve ever met, and his friendship means everything to me. I know he was intimidated in the beginning by his idea of who I should be, based on my background and professional designation, but we ultimately established that my job has no bearing on my esteem for him.
Despite the way we met, we’ve never gotten together physically. He told me a few weeks after we met that he loved spending his time with me, but wasn’t interested in a sexual relationship. We know from recent conversation that we have the same sexual interests and appetite, and share a similar view towards dating and relationships. We both “sleep around”, but are both at a point in our lives where we are reassessing what kind of person we want to be with. Lately we’ve been making comments about our ideal mates – often sounding like we are describing each other – although we spend just as much, or even more, time talking about how we don’t like each other. He’s so outwardly wrong for me, and I’m so far from his physical ideal (though when it comes to sex, he’s not too picky as long as the other party is female). We tend to have tension-filled erotic moments when we drink together, occasionally ending up in each others arms, but that’s the extent of our physical connection. Who knows what his real reasoning is, but the other day he told me he decided a long time ago that it would be a bad idea to sleep with me, as he’s accidentally ruined friendships that way. I’ve told him I don’t want to sleep with him, as I don’t want to feel like I’m the latest in a long line of unattractive-to-him sexual conquests. I also don’t want to ruin our friendship. I’ve had friendships that involved sex without any trouble, but I don’t want to risk harming this one.
So, what is the problem? I’m falling for this guy. Really falling for him. Those tension-filled erotic moments are becoming too much for me. Recently we spent about six hours entwined together on the couch (slightly drunk at the time, of course) and it would have gone far beyond holding each other if I hadn’t avoided his initial request for a kiss by giving him a peck on the cheek. But afterwards, I was miserable for the next few days, because being with him felt so good. I try to remind myself that he’s not right for me, he doesn’t want to be with me, etc. But it’s not working very well. We’ve both been dating other people recently, then coming home to each other and complaining about how horribly boring the date was, and how we just can’t find the right people, at the same time as we talk about how well we get along and how much we have in common. I want to say or do something, and try to move towards a relationship of some sort, but I don’t want to mess up the best “relationship” I’ve ever had. I’ve done the whole “make myself available” thing, which usually results in me sleeping with the recipient, but doesn’t work on him. Dating other people isn’t working, as I keep thinking of him. I’m really not sure what to do. Despite the fact that he acts in so many ways like he does feel something for me, my gut tells me that he doesn’t like me – mainly based on his assertions that he doesn’t want to ruin something by sleeping with me. I could force myself to get over him. I did it once after we knew each other for a while, but the recent couch episode made me realize I’ve been lying to myself. I could just take things as they are. As it is, we do everything together. Our lives are so intertwined that everyone assumes we are a couple, and we’ve even joked that we might as well get married because of it. I could flat-out tell him how I feel, though that risks making the relationship awkward.
I’ve been trying to come up with some light-hearted ways to bring up the issue and let him take it seriously or as a joke, depending on how he feels. Or I could just talk about it the next time we get drunk together, though I don’t like that idea because it seems like a cop-out. I don’t know. I just want to know. It’d be easier to forget about it and enjoy the friendship if he would just tell me he doesn’t ever want anything more. But if that happens, I probably won’t get any of the “benefits” I get now from this complicated situation.
The only thing I’m certain of is that, despite the fact that each of us have had plenty of sexual partners, and have each been in two serious long-term live-in relationships, we are both very insecure when it comes to the opposite sex. We each feel like the eccentricities that attract us to each other as friends make us less attractive to other potential mates. And we both want a real relationship, but find it hard to meet people that don’t bore us.
So, wise Manslator, do you have any take on the situation? I realize it’s long and detailed, and a rational person could probably edit it down to a short paragraph. But I’d love some input. How am I ever going to deal with this friendship, and stop walking around like a brokenhearted zombie all the time?
Hello. Wanted to add to my manslation request from yesterday. Had sex with the wonderful roommate last night. It wasn’t great sex (performance anxiety on my part, ya know?) but it happened. However, it doesn’t change the situation, except perhaps to make it more complicated. We’ve both talked before about how sex is possible between two friends without necessarily leading to more. Uggh.
Posted: January 30th, 2008 under Reader Requests.
Comments
Comment from Selena
Time January 30, 2008 at 1:28 pm
I had this situation when I was quite young, though it was my male friend who really wanted to have a relationship. I resisted for many months, finally giving in so as not to “lose” him to someone he had started dating. We were a couple for a number of rocky years and had a child together before going our separate ways. Though I loved him, I never felt *truly* in love with him, if you can appreciate the difference. And that difference became glaringly obvious to me when years later I did fall deeply in love with someone else.
Perhaps your friend has recognized this difference on some level himself, despite how much he cares for you? That somehow, no matter how great you are, you are not “The One” for him?
Now that you’ve slept together, have things changed in the way you react to each other? Has he backed off? Are the two of you pretending nothing happened?
You listed a selection of options for yourself, I suppose the one you should take would be the one that’s the least painful. For me, I would have to tell the man how I really felt, and hope that just maybe he felt the same. I don’t think I could sustain a platonic friendship–as roommates–with someone I wanted more with. And the “friends with benefits” deal would be harder. I don’t see how you could also continue on with him bringing other women home, feeling as you do. THAT sounds terribly uncomfortable.
I hope this works out for you, I really do, but I think you should prepare yourself for a negative outcome nevertheless.
Comment from Ronnie-The Dating Coach
Time January 30, 2008 at 7:47 pm
We women say always want to know. We say that things are complicated and confusing.. But I don’t feel confused here. (Of course, I’m not in the situation so sitting over here on the sidelines gives me a bit more objectivity than if I was knee deep in it.)
I agree with Jeff. It doesn’t look good. Yes, you could talk to him about it. But I have found this is one of those conversations where he would probably say anything to end the painful awkwardness. I bet he rather not hurt your feelings.
When things are this unclear, that’s often a sign something isn’t right. You may have to walk away from your friend with benefits, but don’t you deserve more?
If you felt really confident, is this the situation you would choose for yourself? Think about what you want in the long run, then look back at this and see how this fits into that futuristic picture. You may discover that there are far better relationship options for you out on the horizon of a future without your roomie.
Comment from hunter
Time January 30, 2008 at 10:06 pm
to Sally,
you met through a “casual dating ad?” Manslates into “casual sex”………he was just waiting for you to warm up. Another key word in your request, for a manslation is “unemployed”. I sense,, you fail to mention, he is very good looking…… I sense he likes you, and wants to be around you, using your money!……
Comment from mmagnolia
Time January 30, 2008 at 10:32 pm
Ouch! Why so much GloomyGus stuff? Let’sB positive, at least a la Sherlock–eliminate the impossible. JM: you say it’s possible Dear Sally’s guy might be, could be a do-right-Dudley for her intentions–so, keep the hope more alive than KO’d. It’s no contradiction to expect the best AND to be prepared for the opposite. In some places, that’s called maturity. Fret not, Sally; this could be mere storm B4 calm. We’ll bet our brews on your ‘twosomeness’ & cheer your voracious Valentine moments!
Comment from Sally
Time January 31, 2008 at 8:27 am
Thanks for the manslation – and for all the comments! Things are just getting weirder and weirder.
So, neither of us have seen other people in a long time. We’re together 24-7, and the sex has gotten better. Recently I felt like I ought to be honest, and told him exactly what I’m feeling. As much as I want it, I can’t believe he’s into me, and I asked him to tell me as much so that I could just get over him and we could go back to normal. But aside from telling me he “likes me tons,” he didn’t say anything. He’s not the type to lie/avoid about that stuff, so I was annoyed that he didn’t say anything when I specifically asked him to. And he’s gotten way nicer and affectionate since then. So I’m trying to decide if he’s an idiot or just a jerk that likes the ego boost. I’m leaning towards idiot, since he’s a decent guy.
At least he was clear regarding our friendship. I mentioned that I was doing a great job of ruining it, and he said that it was only ruined in my head. The fear of messing up the friendship is what held me back from saying anything, so it’s a relief to know that he’s ok with it.
In response to hunter – he is not good looking in the traditional sense, though he’s grown way more attractive to me as we’ve gotten to know each other. And yes, he’s unemployed, but he does pretty much everything for me while he’s job-hunting. A man who will sew pillowcases for me is a good friend indeed.
Comment from Selena
Time January 31, 2008 at 12:36 pm
A man who will sew pillowcases? Keeper quality there! Sex has gotten better? That bodes well.
Sally, maybe it would help to, I dunno, to not try to over-analyze what’s going on right now? To kind of take it day by day and see how it goes?
I’ve found it’s a good thing to have the “exclusivity talk” early on to avoid misunderstandings and hurt feelings. Given your friendship, and previous dating patterns I’d think that might be important for the two of you. It is always good to know where each other stands. ” He likes you tons?” Okay, but as long as you are sleeping together is/does he still fancy himself a free-agent? Get that straight, before you start trying to forcast your future.
Comment from Sally
Time January 31, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Ha, my forecast for the future is friends-only, based on what he said in the past. I just want him to say it to me now, and be clear about it, so that I can accept it and move on. I thought the talk about how I feel about him would make him back off or something. But as I mentioned, he’s gotten even nicer. Clingy, almost, in his own weird way. Not that I’m complaining, but I think at this point I’m going to take a break from him and go stay somewhere else for a day or two, for the sake of my sanity.
Does he fancy himself a “free agent”? I don’t know, nor do I care. We talked long ago about how open relationships work for us. My attitude – if the guy wants to screw around with someone else, that’s fine as long as I know about it and he comes home to me. The fact that he’s not seeing anyone else (and making a point of letting me know when he’s not seeing the girls that call him) is odd to me, particularly as we AREN’T dating.
But yeah, overanalysis is not a good thing. Unfortunately, I seem to be cursed with the female tendency to do so.
Comment from Selena
Time January 31, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Well Sally,
You sound like a woman who knows what she wants, and has got it. Why do you need to hear him say “friends only”? To move on from what? If you’re cool with open relationships, is there really any problem here?
Comment from sally
Time February 1, 2008 at 1:15 am
Yep, there is a problem. I want the relationship part. 
Comment from fred
Time February 3, 2008 at 6:03 am
This sounds like a wierd situation I’ve been in. I have been spending a lot of time – four calendar months – with a beautiful man. We began as mates, with a lot of flirting, and then one night I was distressed about someone else and he came over to comfort me and the rest was history.
Week 1 – the talk about how he was not ready for a relationship but I was glorious and he really wanted to be friends. Following day the footy game we were watching became an afternoon romp.
Week 2 – not ready for a relationship, but stayed over anyway after my graduation party and made eyes at me all night long.
Week 3 – took our kids camping. Sexy! All ‘not ready for a relationship’ comments ceased. Things really changed. It was growing nicely.
Two months – a momentary freak out and a bumbled statement about not wanting a relationship, which I defused by saying I didn’t know what it was but he shouldn’t try to define it. He starts confiding our relationship in our friends.
Three months. I dropped the L-word. Silence on his part. Wonderful escalation in our sexual and emotional bond. Four nights a week at my place and his, with and without our kids. By now I have met his family, and he is telling all and sundry that he has a girlfriend, but he’s still talking about the future as being friends ‘for the rest of my life’. I asked him to be clear with me about where we were heading, because I am too old to be fucked around (I am 39, and at that stage was thinking another kid would be nice. He is 27).
Christmas and New Year came, with much tension because suddenly he wasn’t so available. Plans were broken, usually at the behest of his parents. I got distressed, let him know about it.
Four months exactly – he breaks up, saying he is terrified that all the nastiness of his previous relationship will recur and that he is too phobic to fall in love. But he wants to be best, best friends. I know this is too difficult, so say no, but relent and of course we spend almost as much time in bed as we always did. After a fortnight I put a stop to it. But he’s still kissing me when he sees me. Still showers me with compliments. Still makes eyes at me when we collect our kids from their school. He doesn’t initiate contact, but he relishes when I do (ie. two hour conversations follow).
Manslation?
I feel Sally and I are in the same situation, and the prognosis is not good. But what’s the explanation for this behaviour, and why can someone be so into you, spend all their time with you, make passionate love to you, treat you like an absolute princess and yet be adamant that they don’t want it to go further?
Comment from fred
Time February 3, 2008 at 6:45 am
OK, so now I’ve read more of the blog posts and I do agree with the it’s not what they say it’s what they do … which is why I felt safe enough to fall for this bloke, because he was doing ALL the right things. And now what he’s doing is saying it’s over … but we are still close.
In his case, he quite possibly has a suite of depressive disorders (the last relationship was a doozy, and involved things better not discussed on a family blog).
Will he get ready for a relationship? Will he think about me when he is?
God, that sounds so pathetic.
Comment from hunter
Time February 4, 2008 at 10:20 pm
to fred,
..you say he is “27?”…..and you are “39?’…..I would say, he is your “boy toy,” you don’t want to marry a boy toy….
Comment from Selena
Time February 5, 2008 at 9:44 am
Fred,
My thoughts are that when people deem they are “ready for a relationship” they don’t usually backtrack to someone they previously dated for a few months. More likely, they meet someone new, are highly attracted and a relationship just naturally developes. It sounds to me like your guy cares for you, but just see at this point, long term potential and he knows that’s what you want.
I don’t know if the age difference is a factor, but since you mentioned you’re thinking you’d like to have another child, and you’re 39, then next few years are “now or never” for you on that. Not so for him–especially at age 27. Having a child with you would be the ulimate commitment and can you blame him for not being gung ho on that idea? Especially since you had been together only 4 mos.?
It sounds like you want something serious and you want it now, whereas he is more comfortable just taking things as they go. I’d venture he broke up with you because you told him you were too old to be fucked around. I know it doesn’t seem like it right now, but perhaps he did you a favor by ending it after only 4 mos. rather than letting you believe he was serious for a much longer time when he really wasn’t.
Comment from TheFlamingVirgin
Time February 6, 2008 at 3:20 am
I think this is one of those cases where it was more serious for one of you than it was for the other. This guy sees you as… well… the homegirl. That means he can drink with you, be completely open with you, be himself with you, and even maybe flirt or SLEEP with you, but you two are just friends. It’s like you’re one of the guys. I know, because I have always been “one of the guys.” There are always those few who it seems to be more. The truth is, it COULD be more *think of how close you already are*, but it doesn’t necessarily HAVE to become more.
It seems here that BOTH of you have given off the “let’s just be friends” vibe. Why? Because you both agreed to keep it on a friends-level, you bond with him in a “guy” way (ie: drinking together), and you openly talk about your experiences with OTHER people. He’s thinking that “you two are just buds. Buds who just slept together. *shrug* No biggie, right?” The only way he won’t perceive it that way is if you set the record straight. But from the sounds of it, he loves you enough as a bud.
Comment from Fred
Time February 6, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Thanks for your wise words – here’s an update on that situation. We talked for two hours on Saturday night. Monday we had a two hour coffee. Tuesday he flirted with me all day. Tuesday night he came over. And said ….
(dramatic pause for effect)
He knew he’d put me through the wringer and caused me pain (quite astute seeing as I never let him know that). He hadn’t told me how deeply he cared for me. He was still confused, and still terrified, but he missed me terribly.
I don’t think it means we’re back together officially, but at least the lines are open on what we are doing, and we can make a decision about where we are going. And at least I know that it’s not a ‘I’m really not that into you break up’ and that I wasn’t dreaming when I sensed a really strong connection there. He really is scared, he really is just 27. We’ll see what happens now. I’m still confused, but it’s nicer to be confused and cuddled up with the object of confusion than confused and sitting up alone at night going ‘what the?’
BTW, he’s not really like a toyboy. He’s got a kid same age as me, and though he is younger, he’s very much a man.
Comment from mar
Time January 30, 2008 at 8:28 am
Hi Jeff
Wow, I think this is the most difficult reader request and manslation I’ve seen here for a long while.
I’m not completely convinced by this manslation, but I’m not the manslator and wouldn’t know what’s the deal with this guy.
The only thing that I’d say here to Sally is: why doesn’t she tell him and speak to him? I mean, if they are really good friends, and I take they are from her description of their relationship, then speaking should be easy, and also, given that they have true affection for each other (as friends) they should be able to discuss it and find a way to deal with this situation. Maybe if she does tell him all of this and he replies that he does not feel for her in the same way and does not want anything more than friendship, they can be and stay friends for long? Nothing to lose, is there?
It certainly looks like this situation is distressing for Sally (and I can understand that), so even if the outcome of that conversation is not the outcome she wants, at least she could achieve some closure and that would be good?
I totally sympathise with Sally and hope she can work this out.
Mar