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	<title>Comments on: Are These Two Friends, Or Is There More?</title>
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	<link>http://manslations.com/2008/01/30/are-these-two-friends-or-is-there-more/</link>
	<description>Advice for smart women who are tired of feeling so stupid about men.</description>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://manslations.com/2008/01/30/are-these-two-friends-or-is-there-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3659</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manslations.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-3659</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your wise words - here&#039;s an update on that situation. We talked for two hours on Saturday night. Monday we had a two hour coffee. Tuesday he flirted with me all day. Tuesday night he came over. And said ....

(dramatic pause for effect)

He knew he&#039;d put me through the wringer and caused me pain (quite astute seeing as I never let him know that). He hadn&#039;t told me how deeply he cared for me. He was still confused, and still terrified, but he missed me terribly.

I don&#039;t think it means we&#039;re back together officially, but at least the lines are open on what we are doing, and we can make a decision about where we are going. And at least I know that it&#039;s not a &#039;I&#039;m really not that into you break up&#039; and that I wasn&#039;t dreaming when I sensed a really strong connection there. He really is scared, he really is just 27. We&#039;ll see what happens now. I&#039;m still confused, but it&#039;s nicer to be confused and cuddled up with the object of confusion than confused and sitting up alone at night going &#039;what the?&#039;

BTW, he&#039;s not really like a toyboy. He&#039;s got a kid same age as me, and though he is younger, he&#039;s very much a man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your wise words &#8211; here&#8217;s an update on that situation. We talked for two hours on Saturday night. Monday we had a two hour coffee. Tuesday he flirted with me all day. Tuesday night he came over. And said &#8230;.</p>
<p>(dramatic pause for effect)</p>
<p>He knew he&#8217;d put me through the wringer and caused me pain (quite astute seeing as I never let him know that). He hadn&#8217;t told me how deeply he cared for me. He was still confused, and still terrified, but he missed me terribly.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it means we&#8217;re back together officially, but at least the lines are open on what we are doing, and we can make a decision about where we are going. And at least I know that it&#8217;s not a &#8216;I&#8217;m really not that into you break up&#8217; and that I wasn&#8217;t dreaming when I sensed a really strong connection there. He really is scared, he really is just 27. We&#8217;ll see what happens now. I&#8217;m still confused, but it&#8217;s nicer to be confused and cuddled up with the object of confusion than confused and sitting up alone at night going &#8216;what the?&#8217;</p>
<p>BTW, he&#8217;s not really like a toyboy. He&#8217;s got a kid same age as me, and though he is younger, he&#8217;s very much a man.</p>
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		<title>By: TheFlamingVirgin</title>
		<link>http://manslations.com/2008/01/30/are-these-two-friends-or-is-there-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3658</link>
		<dc:creator>TheFlamingVirgin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 08:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manslations.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-3658</guid>
		<description>I think this is one of those cases where it was more serious for one of you than it was for the other.  This guy sees you as... well... the homegirl.  That means he can drink with you, be completely open with you, be himself with you, and even maybe flirt or SLEEP with you, but you two are just friends.  It&#039;s like you&#039;re one of the guys.  I know, because I have always been &quot;one of the guys.&quot;  There are always those few who it seems to be more.  The truth is, it COULD be more *think of how close you already are*, but it doesn&#039;t necessarily HAVE to become more.

It seems here that BOTH of you have given off the &quot;let&#039;s just be friends&quot; vibe.  Why?  Because you both agreed to keep it on a friends-level, you bond with him in a &quot;guy&quot; way (ie: drinking together), and you openly talk about your experiences with OTHER people.  He&#039;s thinking that &quot;you two are just buds.  Buds who just slept together.  *shrug* No biggie, right?&quot;  The only way he won&#039;t perceive it that way is if you set the record straight.  But from the sounds of it, he loves you enough as a bud.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is one of those cases where it was more serious for one of you than it was for the other.  This guy sees you as&#8230; well&#8230; the homegirl.  That means he can drink with you, be completely open with you, be himself with you, and even maybe flirt or SLEEP with you, but you two are just friends.  It&#8217;s like you&#8217;re one of the guys.  I know, because I have always been &#8220;one of the guys.&#8221;  There are always those few who it seems to be more.  The truth is, it COULD be more *think of how close you already are*, but it doesn&#8217;t necessarily HAVE to become more.</p>
<p>It seems here that BOTH of you have given off the &#8220;let&#8217;s just be friends&#8221; vibe.  Why?  Because you both agreed to keep it on a friends-level, you bond with him in a &#8220;guy&#8221; way (ie: drinking together), and you openly talk about your experiences with OTHER people.  He&#8217;s thinking that &#8220;you two are just buds.  Buds who just slept together.  *shrug* No biggie, right?&#8221;  The only way he won&#8217;t perceive it that way is if you set the record straight.  But from the sounds of it, he loves you enough as a bud.</p>
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		<title>By: Selena</title>
		<link>http://manslations.com/2008/01/30/are-these-two-friends-or-is-there-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3657</link>
		<dc:creator>Selena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manslations.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-3657</guid>
		<description>Fred,
My thoughts are that when people deem they are &quot;ready for a relationship&quot; they don&#039;t usually backtrack to someone they previously dated for a few months. More likely, they meet someone new, are highly attracted and a relationship just naturally developes. It sounds to me like your guy cares for you, but just see at this point, long term potential and he knows that&#039;s what you want.

I don&#039;t know if the age difference is a factor, but since you mentioned you&#039;re thinking you&#039;d like to have another child, and you&#039;re 39, then next few years are &quot;now or never&quot; for you on that. Not so for him--especially at age 27.  Having a child with you would be the ulimate commitment and can you blame him for not being gung ho on that idea? Especially since you had  been together only 4 mos.?

It sounds like you want something serious and you want it now, whereas he is more comfortable just taking things as they go. I&#039;d venture he broke up with you because you told him you were too old to be fucked around. I know it doesn&#039;t seem like it right now, but perhaps he did you a favor by ending it after only 4 mos. rather than letting you believe he was serious for a much longer time when he really wasn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred,<br />
My thoughts are that when people deem they are &#8220;ready for a relationship&#8221; they don&#8217;t usually backtrack to someone they previously dated for a few months. More likely, they meet someone new, are highly attracted and a relationship just naturally developes. It sounds to me like your guy cares for you, but just see at this point, long term potential and he knows that&#8217;s what you want.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if the age difference is a factor, but since you mentioned you&#8217;re thinking you&#8217;d like to have another child, and you&#8217;re 39, then next few years are &#8220;now or never&#8221; for you on that. Not so for him&#8211;especially at age 27.  Having a child with you would be the ulimate commitment and can you blame him for not being gung ho on that idea? Especially since you had  been together only 4 mos.?</p>
<p>It sounds like you want something serious and you want it now, whereas he is more comfortable just taking things as they go. I&#8217;d venture he broke up with you because you told him you were too old to be fucked around. I know it doesn&#8217;t seem like it right now, but perhaps he did you a favor by ending it after only 4 mos. rather than letting you believe he was serious for a much longer time when he really wasn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: hunter</title>
		<link>http://manslations.com/2008/01/30/are-these-two-friends-or-is-there-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3656</link>
		<dc:creator>hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 03:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manslations.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-3656</guid>
		<description>to fred,

..you say he is &quot;27?&quot;.....and you are &quot;39?&#039;.....I would say, he is your &quot;boy toy,&quot;  you don&#039;t  want to marry a boy toy....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to fred,</p>
<p>..you say he is &#8220;27?&#8221;&#8230;..and you are &#8220;39?&#8217;&#8230;..I would say, he is your &#8220;boy toy,&#8221;  you don&#8217;t  want to marry a boy toy&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: fred</title>
		<link>http://manslations.com/2008/01/30/are-these-two-friends-or-is-there-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3655</link>
		<dc:creator>fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 11:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manslations.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-3655</guid>
		<description>OK, so now I&#039;ve read more of the blog posts and I do agree with the it&#039;s not what they say it&#039;s what they do ... which is why I felt safe enough to fall for this bloke, because he was doing ALL the right things. And now what he&#039;s doing is saying it&#039;s over ... but we are still close.

In his case, he quite possibly has a suite of depressive disorders (the last relationship was a doozy, and involved things better not discussed on a family blog).

Will he get ready for a relationship? Will he think about me when he is?

God, that sounds so pathetic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, so now I&#8217;ve read more of the blog posts and I do agree with the it&#8217;s not what they say it&#8217;s what they do &#8230; which is why I felt safe enough to fall for this bloke, because he was doing ALL the right things. And now what he&#8217;s doing is saying it&#8217;s over &#8230; but we are still close.</p>
<p>In his case, he quite possibly has a suite of depressive disorders (the last relationship was a doozy, and involved things better not discussed on a family blog).</p>
<p>Will he get ready for a relationship? Will he think about me when he is?</p>
<p>God, that sounds so pathetic.</p>
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		<title>By: fred</title>
		<link>http://manslations.com/2008/01/30/are-these-two-friends-or-is-there-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3654</link>
		<dc:creator>fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 11:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manslations.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-3654</guid>
		<description>This sounds like a wierd situation I&#039;ve been in. I have been spending a lot of time - four calendar months - with a beautiful man. We began as mates, with a lot of flirting, and then one night I was distressed about someone else and he came over to comfort me and the rest was history.

Week 1 - the talk about how he was not ready for a relationship but I was glorious and he really wanted to be friends. Following day the footy game we were watching became an afternoon romp.

Week 2 - not ready for a relationship, but stayed over anyway after my graduation party and made eyes at me all night long.

Week 3 - took our kids camping. Sexy! All &#039;not ready for a relationship&#039; comments ceased. Things really changed. It was growing nicely.

Two months - a momentary freak out and a bumbled statement about not wanting a relationship, which I defused by saying I didn&#039;t know what it was but he shouldn&#039;t try to define it. He starts confiding our relationship in our friends.

Three months. I dropped the L-word. Silence on his part. Wonderful escalation in our sexual and emotional bond. Four nights a week at my place and his, with and without our kids. By now I have met his family, and he is telling all and sundry that he has a girlfriend, but he&#039;s still talking about the future as being friends &#039;for the rest of my life&#039;. I asked him to be clear with me about where we were heading, because I am too old to be fucked around (I am 39, and at that stage was thinking another kid would be nice. He is 27).

Christmas and New Year came, with much tension because suddenly he wasn&#039;t so available. Plans were broken, usually at the behest of his parents. I got distressed, let him know about it.

Four months exactly - he breaks up, saying he is terrified that all the nastiness of his previous relationship will recur and that he is too phobic to fall in love. But he wants to be best, best friends. I know this is too difficult, so say no, but relent and of course we spend almost as much time in bed as we always did. After a fortnight I put a stop to it. But he&#039;s still kissing me when he sees me. Still showers me with compliments. Still makes eyes at me when we collect our kids from their school. He doesn&#039;t initiate contact, but he relishes when I do (ie. two hour conversations follow).

Manslation?

I feel Sally and I are in the same situation, and the prognosis is not good. But what&#039;s the explanation for this behaviour, and why can someone be so into you, spend all their time with you, make passionate love to you, treat you like an absolute princess and yet be adamant that they don&#039;t want it to go further?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sounds like a wierd situation I&#8217;ve been in. I have been spending a lot of time &#8211; four calendar months &#8211; with a beautiful man. We began as mates, with a lot of flirting, and then one night I was distressed about someone else and he came over to comfort me and the rest was history.</p>
<p>Week 1 &#8211; the talk about how he was not ready for a relationship but I was glorious and he really wanted to be friends. Following day the footy game we were watching became an afternoon romp.</p>
<p>Week 2 &#8211; not ready for a relationship, but stayed over anyway after my graduation party and made eyes at me all night long.</p>
<p>Week 3 &#8211; took our kids camping. Sexy! All &#8216;not ready for a relationship&#8217; comments ceased. Things really changed. It was growing nicely.</p>
<p>Two months &#8211; a momentary freak out and a bumbled statement about not wanting a relationship, which I defused by saying I didn&#8217;t know what it was but he shouldn&#8217;t try to define it. He starts confiding our relationship in our friends.</p>
<p>Three months. I dropped the L-word. Silence on his part. Wonderful escalation in our sexual and emotional bond. Four nights a week at my place and his, with and without our kids. By now I have met his family, and he is telling all and sundry that he has a girlfriend, but he&#8217;s still talking about the future as being friends &#8216;for the rest of my life&#8217;. I asked him to be clear with me about where we were heading, because I am too old to be fucked around (I am 39, and at that stage was thinking another kid would be nice. He is 27).</p>
<p>Christmas and New Year came, with much tension because suddenly he wasn&#8217;t so available. Plans were broken, usually at the behest of his parents. I got distressed, let him know about it.</p>
<p>Four months exactly &#8211; he breaks up, saying he is terrified that all the nastiness of his previous relationship will recur and that he is too phobic to fall in love. But he wants to be best, best friends. I know this is too difficult, so say no, but relent and of course we spend almost as much time in bed as we always did. After a fortnight I put a stop to it. But he&#8217;s still kissing me when he sees me. Still showers me with compliments. Still makes eyes at me when we collect our kids from their school. He doesn&#8217;t initiate contact, but he relishes when I do (ie. two hour conversations follow).</p>
<p>Manslation?</p>
<p>I feel Sally and I are in the same situation, and the prognosis is not good. But what&#8217;s the explanation for this behaviour, and why can someone be so into you, spend all their time with you, make passionate love to you, treat you like an absolute princess and yet be adamant that they don&#8217;t want it to go further?</p>
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		<title>By: sally</title>
		<link>http://manslations.com/2008/01/30/are-these-two-friends-or-is-there-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3653</link>
		<dc:creator>sally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 06:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manslations.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-3653</guid>
		<description>Yep, there is a problem. I want the relationship part. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, there is a problem. I want the relationship part. <img src='http://manslations.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Selena</title>
		<link>http://manslations.com/2008/01/30/are-these-two-friends-or-is-there-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3652</link>
		<dc:creator>Selena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manslations.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-3652</guid>
		<description>Well Sally,
You sound like a woman who knows what she wants, and has got it. Why do you need to hear him say &quot;friends only&quot;? To move on from what? If you&#039;re cool with open relationships, is there really any problem here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Sally,<br />
You sound like a woman who knows what she wants, and has got it. Why do you need to hear him say &#8220;friends only&#8221;? To move on from what? If you&#8217;re cool with open relationships, is there really any problem here?</p>
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		<title>By: Sally</title>
		<link>http://manslations.com/2008/01/30/are-these-two-friends-or-is-there-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3651</link>
		<dc:creator>Sally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manslations.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-3651</guid>
		<description>Ha, my forecast for the future is friends-only, based on what he said in the past. I just want him to say it to me now, and be clear about it, so that I can accept it and move on. I thought the talk about how I feel about him would make him back off or something. But as I mentioned, he&#039;s gotten even nicer. Clingy, almost, in his own weird way. Not that I&#039;m complaining, but I think at this point I&#039;m going to take a break from him and go stay somewhere else for a day or two, for the sake of my sanity.

Does he fancy himself a &quot;free agent&quot;? I don&#039;t know, nor do I care. We talked long ago about how open relationships work for us. My attitude - if the guy wants to screw around with someone else, that&#039;s fine as long as I know about it and he comes home to me. The fact that he&#039;s not seeing anyone else (and making a point of letting me know when he&#039;s not seeing the girls that call him) is odd to me, particularly as we AREN&#039;T dating.

But yeah, overanalysis is not a good thing. Unfortunately, I seem to be cursed with the female tendency to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha, my forecast for the future is friends-only, based on what he said in the past. I just want him to say it to me now, and be clear about it, so that I can accept it and move on. I thought the talk about how I feel about him would make him back off or something. But as I mentioned, he&#8217;s gotten even nicer. Clingy, almost, in his own weird way. Not that I&#8217;m complaining, but I think at this point I&#8217;m going to take a break from him and go stay somewhere else for a day or two, for the sake of my sanity.</p>
<p>Does he fancy himself a &#8220;free agent&#8221;? I don&#8217;t know, nor do I care. We talked long ago about how open relationships work for us. My attitude &#8211; if the guy wants to screw around with someone else, that&#8217;s fine as long as I know about it and he comes home to me. The fact that he&#8217;s not seeing anyone else (and making a point of letting me know when he&#8217;s not seeing the girls that call him) is odd to me, particularly as we AREN&#8217;T dating.</p>
<p>But yeah, overanalysis is not a good thing. Unfortunately, I seem to be cursed with the female tendency to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Selena</title>
		<link>http://manslations.com/2008/01/30/are-these-two-friends-or-is-there-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3650</link>
		<dc:creator>Selena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://manslations.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-3650</guid>
		<description>A man who will sew pillowcases? Keeper quality there! Sex has gotten better? That bodes well.

Sally, maybe it would help to, I dunno, to not try to over-analyze what&#039;s going on right now? To kind of take it day by day and see how it goes?

I&#039;ve found it&#039;s a good thing to have the &quot;exclusivity talk&quot; early on to avoid misunderstandings and hurt feelings. Given your friendship, and previous dating patterns I&#039;d think that might be important for the two of you. It is always good to know where each other stands.  &quot; He likes you tons?&quot; Okay, but as long as you are sleeping together is/does he still fancy himself a free-agent? Get that straight, before you start trying to forcast your future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A man who will sew pillowcases? Keeper quality there! Sex has gotten better? That bodes well.</p>
<p>Sally, maybe it would help to, I dunno, to not try to over-analyze what&#8217;s going on right now? To kind of take it day by day and see how it goes?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve found it&#8217;s a good thing to have the &#8220;exclusivity talk&#8221; early on to avoid misunderstandings and hurt feelings. Given your friendship, and previous dating patterns I&#8217;d think that might be important for the two of you. It is always good to know where each other stands.  &#8221; He likes you tons?&#8221; Okay, but as long as you are sleeping together is/does he still fancy himself a free-agent? Get that straight, before you start trying to forcast your future.</p>
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