When He “Doesn’t Think of Her Like That”
Today, we’ve got a pretty long request (full text at the bottom), but what it boils down to is this: What happens when you’re dating a guy for months, but when you start talking about “where it’s going” he suddenly is all about how you two are “friends”? When you seem to be all on the same page, but then he tells you he “never thought of you as a girlfriend”?
Let’s see what there is to see. Here are the highlights:
- They live an hour apart, but see each other 2 or 3 times a week, talking and txting every day (for 4 months.)
- During the “where is this going” conversation, he expressed surprise when she told him she wasn’t seeing other people, said he was “not ready for a relationship” and that he doesn’t like having to call to “check in” with a woman.
- He says he’s afraid that this conversation is going to ruin their “friendship,” that he’s had women bail on him after this sort of talk before, and that he just never thought of her “like that” i.e. as a girlfriend.
- Calls the next day, backpedaling hard, saying he doesn’t want to lose her, that he couldn’t sleep, that he had to talk w/a friend of his about it. He’s afraid if they get into a relationship and they break up, they’ll lose the friendship.
- Says he has to do some soul searching about this — that he doesn’t want a relationship right now but might tomorrow, doesn’t want to “answer to anyone” but he doesn’t want to lose what they DO have.
- Of course, Tamara isn’t thrilled with his inability to call her his girlfriend, and wonders what the frig is going on.
Dear Tamara,
In your request, I think you might have hit the nail on the head when you wrote “I told him he must be used to controling women or something.” Yep, sounds to me like you’re right on the money. This sounds like a guy who had to “answer to” some woman or other in his past. And he didn’t like it. It was likely some kind of an “on the leash” situation that left him feeling very, very restrained.
Because here’s the thing. An hour drive several times a week and daily phone calls? For 4 months? That doesn’t sound to me like a guy who is just looking to locate the inside of your undergarments (though I’m sure he enjoys that as well.) Sounds to me like a guy who likes spending time with you. I mean, if all he wanted was to get laid, you have got to be one of the least convenient ways to do that, right?
And yet…he doesn’t like to call it what it clearly seems to be — a relationship. Why?
WORDS HAVE POWER (Not unlike Spiderman, for example.)
You probably didn’t need the example. But it’s there. It’s too late now. There’s nothing we can do about it.
Ahem, the point, the point. Hey, look, you KNOW that words have power. You really want to hear that word “girlfriend” and the fact that you don’t? Bugs the crap out of you, yes? Well, that word evidently has a different kind of power over him, though equally strong.
Look at your situation. You see each other quite a bit. You haven’t met each other’s families yet, but you have met all the friends, and you’re planning a vacation together this summer. From what you’ve told me, you are a COUPLE, Tamara. And yet given ALL of that being true, this one word, if said, would make YOU very happy, and him very nervous.
VERDICT: YOU KEEP USING THAT WORD…I DO NOT THINK IT MEANS WHAT HE THINKS IT MEANS
Tamara, look it sounds to me like this guy might be a little more attached to the IDEA of being single than the actuality of it. I mean, clearly his idea of being in a relationship means that you will now start checking up on him, and he has to “answer to” you. This sounds like parole to me. I guess the question is, is it possible that the two of you want the same thing, but are calling it something different?
I think it’s something you might want to explore with him. But go easy. If you absolutely demand that he step to the relationship line, well, who knows? He might actually get over this relationship-panic he’s got going. Maybe. But he might also bolt, assuming that you’re just like whichever awful person got him so paranoid, right?
I’d recommend taking another step toward him on this. Nothing major, but to say something along the lines of, “Look, that conversation might have brought us into some weird territory there, and I think you might have a very different idea of what ‘relationship’ means from what I do, with all the ‘no one to answer to’ stuff. Here’s what I’m talking about…”
And then tell him what a relationship means to you. Look, the worst case is that he hates your idea of a relationship. And I’ll tell you this — if he truly doesn’t want what you want…well…there you go, right? But I think your best bet will be for him to hear what YOU are talking about, rather than to imagine what you mean based on what OTHER women (i.e. kuh-ray-zee ones) have imprinted on him.
Good luck, Tamara. I know this can feel incredibly frustrating, but all you can do is to be more and more clear with him, and ask for the same back, and then see where you really are, regardless of the words for it.
Your thoughts, ladies? Why’s he being so gunshy here? What can Tamara do?
——————————————————
Hi, you seem to be the best and since I’m in need of some real manslation right now I thought I’d holla at ya.. thanks for your time..
Okay so I’ve been dating this guy for almost 4 months. In the beginning we would see each other once a week, then twice, then sometimes three. We live an hour apart so we even drive to see each other during the week and drive an hour to work in the morning..definately a sacrifice as we are both busy and sleep deprived. Anyway we have now even gone on a weekend trip (with friends though) and have planned more plus a vacation in the summer. He’s met all my friends and I have met his. We have not met each others families and I have not met his kids. We have also been talking on the phone every day and texting throughout the day here and there. So last night out to dinner somehow the “wheres this going” conversation came up.
During this conversation I ask him if he is still “doing him?” he says no and is adamant about that. He says that he thinks that I am still “doing me”. I told him that I actually have stopped seeing other people not really on purpose but it just happened because I started to like him and didnt feel as if I needed anyone else. He says well why would you do that for me when the first time we went out I told you I was just making friends. (HELLO that was like 4 months, like 30 dates, weekends, phone calls, ect. AGO). And that he really is not ready for a relationship, he likes having his freedom. So I said well then you are still doing you. He said no why do you equate not wanting a relationship with being with other women he said he just does not want to feel like he has to check in and explain himself to anyone. I told him he must be used to controling women or something. he tells me a few stories to clarify that yes that is the case. anyway i tell him thats fine i just needed to know whether i should be keeping my options open or not because if we kept going i dont want to get hurt. he says why is the title so important anyway. i remind him that there are differences between friends and girlfriends like you know that person has more serious feelings for you. he just shakes his head yes.
he gets really concerned saying hes afraid this conversation is going to ruin our friendship. i assure him that no i appreciate his being honest and everythings cool. yet he senses that i am tense so he continues to tell me that hes gone through this before and the next day the girl considers him an A** and never talks to him again. he says hes really upset that this happened and he just NEVER THOUGHT OF ME LIKE THAT. all i could say was wow ok then. anyway i gave him a hug and left.
so this morning he calls me up saying how concerned he is that this talk is going to ruin our friendship and that he really doesnt want to lose me and enjoys spending time with me and that im such a cool girl. he says that he couldnt sleep well and called his friend first thing this morning to talk to him because he was so distraught. i tell him no its fine dont worry we are still friends. he continues anyway saying well what if we did get in a relationship and it ended badly and we lost our friendship. i say yes that happens all the time and i understand and its no big deal. he continues anyway saying that u know he just needs to do some soul searching and he has never really taken a relationship serious in the past but that hes growing up now (he’s 30) and that hes tired of all that and is enjoying having time for himself and not answering to anyone and that he doesnt want a relationshiop right now but that might change tomorrow or next month he just doesnt know. but that he wasjust afraid that everything would change between us now. i assure him everythings fine and we’re still goin on the trips and all, that its all good.
the thing is im not really all that cool with it. i am really offended that this man told me that he never even thought of me like that…as a girlfriend. how could he not? he also reminded me that we are so cool together and its not all about the physical because we hang out alot without that. so what is it? why if we are so cool together would he not want to say okay well i am looking for a relationship and i like you but lets just keep it slow for a while. why instead is he willing to let me see other people and continue to hang out with him just as a friend. i guess he just doesnt like me? anyway sorry im so wordy and lengthy.
what i am going to do is just keep hanging out with him like the conversation never took place but because i dont want to get hurt ill probably “do me” on the side. i just dont know what to do or take of all this. i figured this had to be leading somewhere with all the natural progression?? AND I WAS NOT PUSHY AT ALL i cannot stand being controlled or controlling others.
anyway thanks.
Posted: May 29th, 2008 under Reader Requests.
Comments
Comment from mar
Time May 29, 2008 at 9:56 am
Just a quick note: from reading this post, I was under the impression that this man might have gotten married young.
The reasons are:
- he’s got kids
- he’s 30 years old
And a thought: he might have gotten into a serious relationship too early, and now wants to recover independence and enjoy singledom.
I don’t know what the manslator will think about this, but I think that if that is the case, then is also not a favourable circumstance for Tamara.
Comment from thursdaynext
Time May 29, 2008 at 10:30 am
Agreed. This is tricky. He seems like the kind of guy who wants all of the glory of a having a girlfriend (the companionship, the vacations, physical intimacy, etc), but NONE of the responsibility / commitment. He wants an escape clause & the phrase “But I thought we were just friends!” will come in handy. Now, I don’t think he’s being mean spirited or trying to play you, he’s just probably been burned before. He wants what’s right for him (which is a no pressire friendship-type thing, or whatever he’s calling it). And you want what’s right for you (a real relationship, someone who you can call your boyfriend & vice-versa). I think you should talk with him about your feelings & what a relationship means to you (good advice Jeff!). However, don’t alter or downplay your emotions to fit his time-line.
Comment from Ingrid
Time May 29, 2008 at 10:47 am
Well my take on this may be completely different from others posted.
In my experience, men mostly get real freaked out when they perceive a woman is putting pressure on them or wanting to label it. I know – not our fault – just a natural tendency we have to want to know where things are going and sometimes we push things before the guy is ready to deal with it. And it can make him run as fast the other way real quick.
So I’ve learned to always remember dating is supposed to be fun. And who cares whether it’s called a “relationship” or a “friendship”. To you it’s the former and to him the latter – but bottom line, you are both having a good time.
If it quacks like a duck, it is a duck. You get to decide the species.
Comment from thursdaynext
Time May 29, 2008 at 11:07 am
I see what you’re saying Ingrid & you make a good point. Labels don’t mean anything per se. I’d just be wary of a guy who gets freaked out at the word “girlfriend” & “relationship” 4 months in. From what Tamara expressed in her letter she didn’t seem to be putting very much pressure on him. She played it pretty cool. Also, he’s mentioned to Tamara that this has happened before & it ruined the friendship with the other woman. Is this his dating pattern? I think the danger lies in keeping the status quo with hope that maybe he’ll come around, like maybe in another 4 months he’ll still feel the same way, maybe in a year he’ll be ready for a relationship. Maybe not.
I think it’s important for two people to be on the same page in terms of relationship expectations (at least after the first 30 dates).
Comment from Selena
Time May 29, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Maybe my relationships have just run faster than other people’s, but for me this “labeling” issue has always worked itself out one way or another after 2-2.5 mos. not 4. I’ve noticed what I call the *The 3 month mark*, if within 3 mos. we haven’t fallen in love with each other, it’s clear it’s not going to happen. Three months of dating (and I’m talking IN PERSON dating here, not the long-distance, electronic kind) is enough time to have spent with someone to decide whether it’s just casual, or more meaningful. It’s enough time to feel you are bf/gf or if you are just “friends with benefits” or one of the other sobriquets that describe such a relationship. After 3 mos. you have the expectation that the r’ship will continue, or if it will always remain casual until one or the other of you finds someone else.
Tamara, the relationship you describe certainly sounds like bf/gf to me given all the time and driving the two of you do to spend time together. BUT…the fact that after 4 mos. he still refers to the two of you “as just friends” and claims he doesn’t care if you see other people, just screams that he sees this as merely a casual relationship that could last indefinetly. Could being the operative word here, because you might find ‘casual’ not enough. And why should you?
The back-pedaling doesn’t surprise me. I’m sure he likes having a “girlfriend-esq” with the option to pull back at any time because you’re really just friends. How many other women could he find to go along with such an arrangement? Obviously, he’s already found a few in the past who balked at the prospect and ended their “friendship” with him.
If this bf/gf-esq relationship is good enough for you, by all means continue. But don’t continue on with the hope he will fall in love with you “someday” if that is what you really want to happen. Jeff offers very good advice on defining what a relationship means to each of you. But I think you need to keep in the back of your mind, this guy might never want more than this with you no matter what the wording.
Comment from mmagnolia
Time May 29, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Dears! A little different reality can’t hurt [2much!]. First: my read of his “‘controlling women” was that “controlling” was written as a Verb, NOT an adjective. In other words, methought—HE seeks to control women. Can’t be 2farfetched, given HIS self-disclosed history. Relations need tilling–psycho-emotional and, sometimes, ‘commuter’. Maybe this Mr. Not-A-BF isn’t up for all that toil. Secondly: The her/his shimmy of “doing me” and “doing you” [Yes...again, initially !misconstrued] could be a key here–if only for Dear Tamara. She wants a commitment of efforts made; the He isn’t comfortable giving what She wants. GollyGee, if He’s that! squeamish about jargon versus action, find out why. Lettuce not discount the possibility that His operations signify a “controlling” of his salads! Don’t die wondering! Lastly, Third: Count any new knowledge as Joy—which can be a handy aphrodisiac whether ‘doing’ selves or each other!
Comment from uberfrau
Time May 29, 2008 at 6:22 pm
I wonder why you’re not insulted. You’re seeing a guy for four months and he claims that he’s never “thought” of you like that? It’s insulting, rude, and inconsiderate.
The reason why other women think he’s a** is because he treats them like one. Clearly he’s not soul searching or growing, and he’s also stringing you along by saying he might be ready at some future date. But not now. That’s even more awful.
He says he’ doesn’t like like controlling women, but honestly, it just sounds like he doesn’t like women he can’t control or ignore at his whim. Maybe he can’t handle be partially responsible for someone else’s feelings. As you know, that’s not how any relationship works.
We can all analyze his past, and he’s neurosis, whatever-but to you, all that should be important is how he treats you. He is sending mixed messages-but one message is very clear–he’s not ready. And you are. The only thing you can do is have that talk with him, get mad, and move on-and really move on.
Comment from uberfrau
Time May 29, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Ps. None of this is about you. It’s all about him and his problems, which have nothing to do with you.
Comment from LA Lady
Time May 29, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Hello Friends,
I think we have a maturity issue here…. The phrase that jumped off the screen for me was “he has never really taken a relationship serious in the past ” – how can this be if he has children?????? When he got some woman pregnant (more than once) how could that not have been a serious relationship? I just don’t understand how he could be so flippant.
Tamara – I urge you to think long and hard about waiting around for this guy to “grow up”. If it hasn’t happened by age 30 with children, then it may never happen. These are the kind of men that when the going gets rough (i.e. you get a serious illness, lose your job, have a major trauma, etc.) they take a hike. Trust me I know of what I speak from the University of Experience.
Comment from mar
Time May 30, 2008 at 7:49 am
I really think this “label” issue is very important, and do not endorse Ingrid’s comment at all.
It’s true that dating is about having fun, but a lot of people date not because it is fun but because they want to find a partner, and thus dating has to evolve. And there are reasonable timelines for evolution to happen. I do think that after 4 months of dating, one should have some idea of what one wants and feels and where one wants to go next.
Also, he is not taking any responsibility for his life or for his relationship, which sounds pretty immature for me. He is now afraid that he will lose her as a friend, but that’s exactly what’s going to happen if they don’t discuss this now and decide what they are going to do about it.
I did mention I knew a case of two persons dating for a year without the guy ever saying that she was his gf. It was a freaking insane status for her, that went on too long. Eventually she dumped him and asked him not to get in touch ever again. So that is a friendship that could not survive such strain.
So really, if he has any common sense and sense of responsibility, he just needs to address this now. If they find that they want different things at this stage in their lives, then I think they should move on. Perhaps then, and only then, they can be “friends.”
Best
Mar
Comment from Annabella
Time June 3, 2008 at 10:50 am
I would take a break (for a few weeks) and go on a few casual dates with other people. Let the guy know so there is no surprise, but this way you can judge how he really feels about you and help you to clear your head. If he misses you and suddenly realizes that he doesnt want you hanging around other men freely, then he will let you know. This is the point where you can gently remind him that as much as you care about him, you need commitment. If he can’t give it to you – move on. I’ve been there. Trust me. You can’t change him, he has to change himself and that won’t happen if you give him your “friendship” and still give up on what you need. And there is NOTHING wrong with needing commitment after a few months.
Comment from Judy
Time May 16, 2009 at 6:40 am
Oh, my goodness, honey, do not stay in this mess on his terms. I’m in agreement with Uberfrau’s tougher stance here.
I’m sorry to say this, but I’ve been there (and you all know I’m an older lady), and here’s how it will go: You’ll cling to the hope that he will change. You’ll cling, you’ll cling, you’ll cling…and he will NOT change. This is your one and only “wild and precious life” — is this what you want out of it?
You deserve to have someone who is a real man, who’s not afraid to claim your love and honor your relationship. Kick this manipulative baby to the curb, and go find someone who is worthy of your feelings.
Sending you white light,
Judy
Comment from strawhat
Time May 16, 2009 at 2:20 pm
i am with judy on this one she has it just right
Comment from mar
Time May 29, 2008 at 9:46 am
Hello everyone
This is tricky.
We may agree that they are already in a relationship, it seems. However, he doesn’t acknowledge that. And even though he doesn’t want a relationship (once the topic was brought up) he wants to keep this “friendship.”
Now, this sounds very weird, doesn’t it: we think that they already have a relationship (judging by the facts), it’s only that he will call it friendship. And it is a friendship that he is afraid to lose. So he wants to keep this relationship/friendship. He just doesn’t want to call it a relationship.
Well, I don’t know to others, but to me this sounds a bit insane. It looks to me as if he doesn’t want to face up to reality. That cannot bring anything good. (I btw know someone who hanged out with a woman for a year and never called her gf; she eventually couldn’t live with that any longer, so she “split up” and they have never again been in touch.)
I think having a conversation explaining what Tamara wants out of their friendship might be worth trying. Still, if that doesn’t work out, I actually recommend moving on. Why hanging out with a person who won’t call you gf? And for how long can a sensible person do that? If he doesn’t want a relationship then there is no reason to expect that that will change. I mean, it may or may not change, but why would anyone want to stay around waiting?
Best,
Mar