He’s Being too Sneaky for His Own Good
-->Happy Friday the 13th, oh ladies of mine. On this most un-auspicious of days, we’ve got a request from Angie, who seems to be dating a guy who is so concerned about putting himself out there that he’s put himself, well, NOwhere. What the hell’s going on with him? Let’s find out:
Hi Jeff.
Hi.
I would appreciate your help.
Then I shall bestow it.
I’ve known this guy for 2 years, but didn’t notice him “in that way” until 8 months ago. Him? Quiet, reserved, pretty much keeps to himself and some guy friends. Me? Outgoing, social, laugh out loud, always looking for the next adventure. For a year and a half we would run into each other at the church’s social events and I thought nothing of it. Now, well now I’m interested. All of a sudden I’m quiet and have no clue WHAT to talk about.
All sounds well within the parameters of pre-date freakout. Go on…
I mentioned to him once that my sons were with their dad for Thanksgiving, and so he calls me on that day and leaves me a message wishing me a Happy Thanksgiving. I call back about 2 hours later and we get to talking. He invites me over for coffee, and I go over. Five hours and lots of coffee later, I’m on the way home.
Ok, that sounds great — he saw an opportunity to do something sweet (contact you when he knew you’d be alone) and he grabbed it. And ran with it. Great!
I thought it went well, but he didn’t ask me again so I’m not sure what happened.
Hm. Methinks he chickened out a little. Hm.
I thought I was letting it go, but then two months later he invites me to join a Bible study group he’s in, and I accepted. (I’m one of two females in the group. The other lady is married to one of the guys.) Two weeks later he calls me and asks if I want to go to a concert that evening, and I accept.
Ok, all right. He fell down a little last time, but now he’s back in the saddle. Good. Asked you out, good deal….
Then he calls me back to tell me he wants to make sure I understand that we’re just going as friends, that it’s not a date.
Oh, like hell. Ok. I think I know this guy now. More in a minute.
I pretend it’s not a big deal but, of course, I was crushed. I went to the concert anyway. What the heck? Free concert, right?
Hm. I bet that was a fun concert.
So, I figure I can accept that we’re just friends, but who am I kidding? One of the guys in the study group starts to show interest, and now things have changed. All of a sudden, he’s calling me more and for stupid reasons that I just don’t get (like to see what I’m taking to a large potluck so he doesn’t take the same thing, or to get information for something both he & I have been e-mailed about already). It’s starting to get annoying, so I’m limiting my interactions outside of the Bible study.
Yep. It’s just as I thought. I got this guy’s number now.
My heart says “wait and see.” My head says “you’re wasting your time.” Either way, I’m not going out with others. If I wasn’t so darn attached it would make things alot easier, but then again, I wouldn’t have to e-mail you, would I? Even though I’m social and outgoing, I never dated much, so I have no clue what’s going on here. Thanks for the manslation, Jeff.
Dear Angie,
Ok, I think your guy outsmarted himself here. Sounds to me like a guy who is, for whatever reason, terrified of being out there in the breeze, with his intentions known. Not unless he knows YOUR intentions, which he evidently does NOT.
Look at what he did:
- Invited you over on Thanksgiving when he knew you might be lonely (but then didn’t close the deal by asking you out again.)
- Invited you out to a concert (but then pulled way back and said it wasn’t a date.)
- Once another dude showed interest, he was suddenly VERY interested. (but still not direct.)
To me, this screams “insecurity.” He isn’t sure where you’re at, doesn’t know if you like him. And he is panicked at the thought of you knowing where HE’s at. He’s so afraid of being in a situation where he puts himself out there, let’s you know he likes you, and then you say, “Oh, I didn’t even know we were dating.”
WHAT TO DO?
I think this might be a situation where you are going to have to save him from himself. I think you might have to actually ask him out. And it could be in a low-pressure kind of way, like a, “So…what would you think about you and me going out on…like, an actual ‘date’?” You know, keep it fun, keep it light. Give him a nice, slow, underhand pitch that he can easily smack out of the park.
I mean, in most cases when a guy is THIS interested, he’ll ask. But it seems like he a.) IS interested, and b.) will not ask. I think he doesn’t know how to read you.
Good luck, Angie. I think as inexperienced a dater as you say YOU are, he might be even less so. Either that, or he just flat doesn’t know how to read you. If you still want to date him, give him a little nudge in the right direction. I think it should work.
What do you think, folks? This guy dateable? What’s the deal? (And watch out walking under ladders, or having your path crossed by your odd black cat today!)
Posted: June 13th, 2008 under Reader Requests.
Comments
Comment from AnneZ
Time June 13, 2008 at 10:14 am
Well, if he’s worth it, and only she knows if he is, she’s going to have to do some of the work for him.
I would flat out say “This isn’t a date? Gosh, I’m cr-crushed.” Eyes downcast, oh so appealingly. “I really was flattered when you asked me. I like you so much.” Hopefully, at some point, he will step in and rescue you with a declaration of his “like”. too.
She’s going to have to ask him out, too. Dinner at her house when the kids are at dad’s is a nice touch. Take the opportunity during the evening to touch his shoulder (right hand leans down to serve plate, left hand lands on his shoulder as if for balance) and so forth ad nauseum.
If she really wants things to get started with this guy, she’s going to have to strike some matches and provide handfuls of kindling.
Good luck!
Comment from AnneZ
Time June 13, 2008 at 10:21 am
Wait. Did I say handfuls? I meant armloads, nay, truckloads of kindling. He’s never going to step into the sunshine on his own power. That’s how it looks to me. Angie, he may be a real treasure and very worth the extra work. Go for it.
Comment from Angie
Time June 13, 2008 at 11:48 am
Uhmmm…actually, I’m doing the same thing he’s doing (wanting him to ask me out without my having to show I’m interested and risking rejection). He really IS a real treasure, but I’m just too afraid of the friendship getting weird if I take a step and it turns out I misread him all this time. Plus, he doesn’t call anymore to chat, so I’m wondering if he’s moved on. I guess there’s only one way to find out…..(taking a big breath right about now).
Comment from AnneZ
Time June 13, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Well, if you’re convinced he’s a treasure–don’t let him get away! Guess what? There are women out there who are bolder than you who will figure it out and snap him right up. How will your pride feel about that?
Maybe write it out and put it in your wallet: “I won’t die from rejection.” (He needs to do that, too, but he didn’t write in!)
Will your “friendship” suffer if you go for it? Well, how much of a friendship is it? Reeeeally?
If he really, truly, doesn’t want you, I know you can find a way to be gracious about it and keep going to church and all. Mild friendship continues as ever.
Here’s a key–when you picture how embarrassing that would be, command yourself to also picture how miserable it would be to see him with a woman who was brave enough to step forward and snap him up? Which scenario is worse? Go for it!
Good luck! Do come back and tell how it goes!
Comment from LA Lady
Time June 13, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Oh I have found myself in this scenario too many times. This was before I found Jeff, the King of Manslations! I know how hard it is to take that first move, and declare your interest, but if you don’t do it, nothing will change, and you will be sitting on pins and needles for a long time waiting for Mr. Treasure to find his way.
Take a risk (it is a small one) and go with the “how about we have a real date” statement, follow it up with “because I really like spending time with you”. He most likely will jump at the opportunity, if he isn’t interested, he will find a kind way to say “No”, and you really won’t die from embarrassment or rejection.
We will be pulling for you here at Manslations. If he really is a treasure, then claim him, if you end up bruised, he not only wasn’t a treasure, but wasn’t worth your time and energy either. Good luck and go get ‘em!
Comment from Pam
Time June 13, 2008 at 12:55 pm
I have to agree with Mar here…
Having just gotten out of a five-month debacle, I realize that — as my wise sister in law pointed out — the people you’re with, friends, boyfriends, etc., should make you feel GOOD about the relationship AND YOURSELF…both during and after interactions.
I.e., if you feel confused, let down, filled with self-doubt, disappointed, sad, or — more alone than if you were actually SINGLE — or anything negative after interacting with the guy then the net-net of the relationship energy is not to your benefit. So simple? Not really though…
You have to have more courage and strength in taking care of yourself than your hope for a relationship.
The bottom line, in my eyes, is that they are filled with self-esteem issues.
I agree that women can (not “should”) do some of the “moves” in the beginning of a relationship but — and I feel very strongly about this — if the man does not have the courage to proclaim his interest and intentions, then that does not say much for his future ability to address actual issues should the relationship progress.
Comment from Liz C
Time June 13, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Sounds a lot like my guy. He’s very much an introvert and just plain didn’t know how to put himself out there or what to do. I did the initial heavy lifting and we broke through the barrier. Now I’m gradually helping him discover how this relationship thing works. Kind of like socializing someone raised by wolves. 
And I’m actually learning a thing or two as well. He’s a treasure and well worth it.
Sometimes the shy, inexperienced ones are worth the heavy lifting. Sometimes not. But you won’t know unless you try. Just ’cause the guy is ’supposed’ to do certain things doesn’t mean it has to be that way all the time.
I like AnneZ’s ‘I won’t die from rejection’ slip. I could’a used one of those in the beginning. 
Comment from mar
Time June 13, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Well, Angie, if YOU DO think he’s a treasure, then do make a move and see what happens. Really, nothing is lost with that. (I fully agree with AnneZ that he should also be like this, but then again, he is not the one asking for advice here!).
I did say that I “hate” this type of men, but that’s because I feel every moment of life is worth living and enjoying, and I don’t quite understand why people are so timid and doubtful about making a few moves. I don’t like to get my hopes up with men who do seem confused… and may hurt me. But I was speaking of a “type” of men in general, and not of every single man in that type. If you do like this guy, then there are reasons why you do, and you should try to see what there’s there!
You don’t lose anything for asking him out on a date! Go for it!
Best, Mar
Comment from mar
Time June 13, 2008 at 5:34 pm
PS. And be clear it IS a date!
Comment from mmagnolia
Time June 13, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Dear Pam makes a perfect point about Mr. Treasure having or not having “courage” to state his interest. But, how “reserved” and shy can He be! He invited the Ms. over to His place–NOT to a neutral place, 5-hours worth?! If he can be ’snapped’ up easily by a “bolder” femme, wouldn’t be much like a true-true One for our Angie! Let’s hope He is Her Treasure, and Their Hearts Fly! **Wow! KISSstuff IS yummy; Merci Bouquets!**
Comment from wilmo
Time June 15, 2008 at 6:21 pm
He wasn’t too shy to clarify that it was friends, not dating. So i don’t think shyness is his problem ,but self esteem. I once was interested in a really sweet guy, funny, considerate, handsome…single even(always a bonus)
he told me once that any time a women was interested in him he would wonder what was wrong with her! Your guy may always second guess himself, he wants you as friends, but gets jealous if other guys are in the picture…sounds like saga to me. Good luck so.
BTW, thanks Jeff for all these wonderful manslations.
Comment from mmagnolia
Time June 16, 2008 at 12:36 am
Also, BTW, Dears: Neither of OurTwo can, as JM puts it, “read” the Treasureable other. “Reading” really doesn’t feed the frogs of Romance. As a *community*, let’s boycott the “read” business. Let’s simply ASK whatever we want to know; that’s an ultimate KISS stratey. Otherwise, one lives on the brinks of wondering! We have to die BUT we don’t have to die wondering–as someone said aeons ago–it’s still true! Each of us can be first in our neighborhoods to ‘deep-six’ doing the deed of a “read” on a Person of Treasure. Living happily ever after a sure thing!
Comment from Mary
Time June 17, 2008 at 3:51 am
This guy is way too insecure for me. I would let him dig his own grave. I’m reserved, sometimes mistaken for shy but I’m also assertive and at 26 too old for guessing games! lol When I imagine the implications for a man, even one of the good ones, who can’t express himself in the beginning stages of a relationship it is almost always a turnoff and I just keep it moving…my interests go elsewhere and they eitha move on too, are torn up by it and respond in ways perhaps as yours did, I`ve had accusations that I was acting funny-to which I explain why it may SEEM that way and has the potential to open door of communication. been accused of “doing it on purpose” ?? self flattery ? yeah, I knew I wasn’t interested…or they finally fess up. Be certain that you even like this guy “like that” Sometimes we get pulled in by the intrigue/mysteries and trying to discover the why’s that we don’t realize WHY mr. too good to be true is just that haha and by then u have wasted time. Bottom line in my opinion is that as a man he has to initiate and follow through. You need only help by being receptive, appreciative and encourage his efforts. you don’t have to coddle or do it for him….again my humble opinion…I’m single too afterall 8~p
Comment from mar
Time June 13, 2008 at 8:38 am
Oh goodness! I so much hate this “type” of men! The type of men who give you a lot of signs of interest but can’t take a step forward or in cases they don’t even want to take it further. My take is that they are really confused.
My experience of this “type” (if they really are a type) is that I can’t figure them out and they only add confusion to my life, so I avoid them. So, I don’t know if I go with Jeff’s advice, but perhaps that also depends on how you are.
In principle, I see no harm in the woman making some “break-through” movement, but if the signs are inconsistent for a long time, I say run! It’s a waste of time!
That’s my take on this.
Good day and weekend to all!
Mar