An Emotional Cheater - Can He Stop?
-->Strange situation to start the week, folks. We’ve got a married couple, married 4 years, and he spends all kinds of time chatting with other women. Our requester, Pany, feels that this is emotional and mental cheating, and wants to know if there is any way he could really stop all of this.
Let’s see if there’s hope for Pany and Cheaty McWanderer.
My husband of 4 years has cheated on me emotionally and mentally with several females through out our marriage. He tells me he doesn’t and never has had sex with them. This is what I am told by these other females also.
Wow. And I bet those were some of the most awkward conversations that anyone on the earth has ever imagined. Having been raised in Connecticut, my hiney just locked itself shut for the day, thanks.
He claims he would never allow himself to take it to that level. With every female it has been all different reasons. They all have conversations for hours at their homes or just over the phone. When I feel that he is acting differently I ALWAYS fine a new number on his phone and call them.
Ok, so trust might be an issue there, heh. I mean, if you’re feeling the need to constantly check his phone…
With each and every female they have All said there was never sex involved. I think thats because I always find out by the second week of his “phone relationships”.
I don’t know if that’s true or not, but it doesn’t really matter what he might do later. Sounds like you’re already pretty pissed about what he’s doing now, let alone anything further.
His tells me he is guilty of only giving his attention. Whatever it is still cheating.
Well, that seems to be the question here, no? I mean, it seems like the two of you have two different definitions of what “cheating” is, or else there’s kind of no more discussion to be had.
I have so much invested in this marriage it is hard for me just to walk. I also feel obligated to help him because he tells me that he believes it is the lack of the love he recieved from his mother as a child.
Er…oh…kay…
And I love him.
Yeah, that’s the tough one, isn’t it? It would be so much easier if you could just kick someone to the curb. But then again, if you could do that, there’d have been no point in being with them at all.
I got in my car and drove 4 states away. I also have a 12 yr old daughter who is not his but calls her Dad. He tells me everyday if I came back he would never do this to me again. But all was said before.The only difference now is that we moved from one state together to another state but now I am back home. His words exact “I will not bring you back here to mess up again”. A part of me wants to go back and pack up the rest of my things and the other part wants to see the good in him and give him this last chance. I believe he has probably cheating in all his past relationships and I am not sure if he could really stop?
Thank you,,
Dear Pany,
Here’s what I’m seeing. Let’s see how he Good, the Bad, and the Ugly add up here.
THE GOOD
He does seem to want to be with you. I mean, if he didn’t care about you at all, it would be pretty easy for him to just let you go. It’s not the greatest thing in the world, but it’s a start.
Also, as you said, he has evidently decided not to have sex with these women. If that is in fact the truth (and you seem to have interrogated all the parties involved, so I’ll take your word for it) then he clearly must have SOME kind of a line that he has chosen not to cross. Again, not something worthy of shouting “yipee” exactly, but it’s a start.
THE BAD
Well, the main thing is, you don’t trust him. And with good reason. He sneaks around to have long conversations with these women, and you snoop around in his phone. Neither of these things are the basis of a fun time. For me, anyway.
THE UGLY
I’m not wild about him explaining his behavior by talking about not getting enough love from his mother when he was a child. Kind of feels like one of those “excuses” I hear so much about. And unless he has access to a Delorean retrofitted with a flux capacitor, he’s not likely to get any more love as a child, so how does he hope to change this situation?
Also, it’s not great that he’s told you “I’ll never, never do this again” and then he DID it again, and now he’s telling you he would never do it again.
VERDICT: NOT SO OPTIMISTIC
There appear to be two issues here.
One is that he doesn’t see anything majorly wrong with what he’s doing. I’m not even saying that there is or there isn’t. Truly, I don’t KNOW what he’s doing with these women and I’m not going to assume. But the point is that it drives you nuts and he KNOWS it does, but he’s still doing it. Not good that he is doing exactly what he knows really hurts you. Again. And again.
The second issue is…well, let’s come at this from the other way. Why SHOULD you trust him? Is there anything in his behavior (and NOT his words) that give you reason to think he’s going to change?
Look, the question is not if a man CAN stop cheating. I hate to break it to Sir NoLoveFromMommy, but even men who had screwy childhoods (Seriously, who didn’t have a screwed up childhood?) get a vote in how they conduct themselves. To do or not do this stuff is a CHOICE. And if it isn’t a choice, well, you go to therapy, you go to a drum circle, you go to burning man, whatever you do. You WORK on it. You don’t rely on everyone else to excuse your bad behavior.
So the question isn’t can he but WILL he. I can’t say that he won’t, but he sure isn’t giving you much reason to think that he will either.
WHAT TO DO IF YOU WANT TO TRY
Ok, you know what to do if you’re going to bail. You don’t need me for that. If you’re going to try to make it work, I would recommend the following:
- Come up with exactly what you need from him.
- Tell him what you need, exactly, and with no ambiguity.
- Make sure he understands that these things are non-negotiable. He can do what he wants, of course, but if he wants YOU, then he must be willing to be with you on terms you can accept.
- Tell him that you want to try, ONCE. Tell him that if he doesn’t want to do what you want him to do, or if he says he does and blows it one more time, he can take it to the bank that he’ll never see you again.
See, you know what? I feel like I need a shower even typing that. I’m sorry, Pany. He can say what he wants, but his actions speak volumes here. I vote to GO. You don’t want to be with someone whose phone you feel the need to raid, looking for other women. And there are PLENTY of men who don’t do this.
What do you think ladies? Is there a chance here? What should Pany do?
Posted: July 14th, 2008 under Reader Requests.
Comments
Comment from Sassy
Time July 14, 2008 at 9:31 am
I wasn’t thinking sex addiction so much as someone who needs constant validation. This man sounds like he is not happy with himself, so he looks to other women outside of his marriage to make him feel “better.”
Two things that jumped out at me. First was that “there’s no sex involved” because they said so. Realistically, what else would they tell you? My gut is that there is sex involved, if not now, soon. With this type of men, it’s just a matter of time, in my opinion.
The second thing that jumped out is that they have “conversation for hours” at “home.” If my husband was at another’s woman’s home for hours, that would be the end of it. Period. Unless she is an old friend that you know and trust and see on a regular basis, there is no reason for this behavior.
Pany, I hope that you can find the strength to get away and stay away. You sound like a wonderful woman with a lot to offer someone who wants to spend time with YOU.
Comment from Frida
Time July 14, 2008 at 10:48 am
This reminds me of a situation with a friend. She was married to a guy who was a few genes short of being gay and loved spending time with women. All he really did was gossip with them endlessly about their love lives etc. But he left my friend sitting at home 3-4 times a week while he went off to meet the various ‘gals’. He was the most popular guy in the valley with the ladies as he was their quasi therapist. Very unlikely that there was sex as he had a low sex drive. The one woman who was focused on him as a potential suitor had him running for the hills. My pet name for him was ‘phus phusi old woman’. In the beginning my friend got this kind of all ears concern which she loved as she wanted to air all her problems as well. But that disappeared soon enough and he was on the phone/visiting the other women. Even if he did not have a romantic relationship with these women, he also did not have one with my friend and it ended in divorce. She waited too long because she thought as there is no sex with the others we still have a relationship inspite of the loneliness she endured sitting at home alone. He also took long vacations on his own. All kinds of possibilities exist for your husband’s behaviour. Just thought I would mention this one as it seems so similar.
Comment from Cindy
Time July 14, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Hi Pany,
I was in a similiar situation with a man for 6 years. I didn’t trust him (nor should I have), and constantly checked his cell phone. He admited that there were other women that he talked to, & said that it ended there.
When our relationship finally ended (and I say finally because now I see that it should have ended 4 years earlier), I started to find out the REAL TRUTH about what had been going on. Apparently, although some of those women may indeed have been “only for conversation”, there was a whole other LAYER of women - prostitues specifically - that he did a much better job of hiding from me! Yikes!
I think that the bottom line is that if he continues this same behavior KNOWING that it makes you unhappy, that alone should be a good enough reason for you to make your exit. There is nothing worse than giving your trust to a man who is not trustWORTHY, and it sounds like that’s what you’ve done in this case, which is why you don’t trust him!!!
It’s doubtful that he’s going to change. A man who needs/looks for validation from other women outside of his relationship is a bottomless pit. Let him OWN his own problems (the apparent self-esteem issues).
Comment from mmagnolia
Time July 14, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Dear Pany, Our comrades are 4-squared right! Sex is as Sex does. “Hours” on the telephone with other women equal some kind of foreplaying. Besides that, He is depriving You of quality time 2gether, doing R just being. ‘They’ say no-sex which may be credible–only due to lack of opportunity.
For the moment–probably a long one–Mr.Whatever should look to you as friend NOT lover NOT wife. Harem NOT Spouse is what he chooses to need And that’s on him ALONE…. So Be IT! The biggg Ouch! is also in here for your child for whom HE is ‘Dad”. [Child's sake can make cause 4U2 pause. Include her, in a limited way, in your ruminating on your"2" futures.]
Be kindest to yourself AND to your daughter who needs the love, strength of a happy role-mom who is your best SELF!
Comment from Robin
Time July 14, 2008 at 12:59 pm
DO NOT GO BACK!!! I agree with Mr. Manslation…his actions are speaking VOLUMES.
Let me make sure I understood you correctly: Mr. Cheaty McWanderer is married to YOU, right? RIGHT!
So unless his profession is that of a therapist who takes phone appointments and makes house calls, he should NOT be spending HOURS speaking with any woman to whom he is not related or married. PERIOD.
The other thing that struck me as disturbing is that once his little chats sessions are discovered, he then finds NEW women to chat with…indicating whatever you said to him about finding his litte talk fests hurtful to you went in one ear and out the other.
Like what is he thinking? “She said to cut things off with Kelly, but she NEVER said I couldn’t start calling this new chick Lisa!!!” Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? Sounds like he still thinks he is single and free to mingle, or er, have intimate conversations with women other than his wife.
I say stay where ever you are, let this man GO and start fresh. You are WAY better off! And guess, what, in a round about way, you are helping him. He can now fully live the single life he attempted to have while married to you!
Comment from Liz C
Time July 14, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Emotional affairs are affairs, too. They divert his time, emotions, and intimacy away from your relationship. They are still wrong, even if there was no ’sex’.
His case rests heavily on the strictly sexual definition of an affair. Even IF there’s no sex talk and even IF everyone is telling the truth. he’s still having affairs, sex or no.
No excuses. Like Jeff sez, the guy has a choice. And so do you.
Comment from Tasha
Time July 15, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Hi,
I feel for you. I think this is a really difficult situation to be in but let me ask you one question.
If say you were dating a guy who took you out for lunch and kept talking to aallll the girls in front of you, if everytime you two walked together he was oggling other women and if another attractive woman just happened to pass by strained his eyes to look at her, WOULD YOU STAY WITH HIM???
You probably wouldnt. Now, this is exactly what your husband is doing. These women do not just offer their phonenumbers out of the blue, nor do they find your husband in the yellow pages and randomly call him right? So he DOES pursue them in order to get them to trust him, to like him, to open up to him, to give him their number AND to accept a long call from him.
As others have said, do you really think women are that stupid? Who, in their right minds would spend hours talking to a man on the phone whom they know is married, unless they got SOMETHING from him. Even if its just attnetion, they are getting the attention he should be paying you and your daughter. Even if he doesnt have sex with them, (which I doubt it) he is still flirting with them, making them feel special and acting interested to maintain their interest. So what is the difference between dating these women to NOT dating these women??? Can you think back of a time that he wooed you the same way???
This is not a question of you being able to trust him or not. You clearly CANT. Because he is doing it behing your back. It is a question of respecting you. And he doesnt. It is just not possible to be constantly flirting with other women and feel deep respect for your significant other as well.
And plus, I wouldnt dare sleeping with this guy knowing that he has a head full of fantacies that he enacts with those women even of a verbal level. You get my point….talks to them and then sleeps with you….NOT NICE.
I do hope you will see how wonderful you trully are and leave now that is early. Please dont go through the immence heartache of discovering that he has been unfaithful.
All the best.
Comment from Mimi
Time July 16, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Where do I start. I have done a fair share of reading on sex and love addiction. I was motivated to read on that subject as well as sociopathy because I was involved with someone similar to your husband. Most disturbing, he had me convinced that he loved me, cared about me, etc. He turned out to be a VERY convincing liar. It wasn’t until almost a year into this train wreck that I discovered that while he was at “dinner meetings” he was actually at Centerfolds in Boston. Read on this is a dooozzzzeeee:
I didn’t figure it out until one night when he showed up at the hotel 2am after making some lame excuse that one of his reps got pulled over for DUI. Now, I am a very outgoing and resourceful girl. I could smell a lie AND IT JUST SO HAPPENED that once again, while he left me waiting at the Millenium, I started chatting with the bartender. The guy sitting next to me heard the whole thing, he too agreed it sounded bogus…turned out his brother was a Boston cop!!! Of course we called and there was no such DUI!!!! So I met this really handsome guy, went out and had a blast and was sure to be back at the hotel for W to show up….This is the best part: He walks in: Suit shirt MIA, suit jacket in hand and T shirt marked with lipstick!! I was just hanging up with the Boston PD (was conveniently given a contact person to make a second call to) when he walks in and STILL tries to continue his lie!!! I calmly shut off all the lights and told him he was covered in lipstick..HE STILL TRIED TO LIE!!! Then admitted where he was. Next morning (after I slept in the OTHER bed) I got the “damage control” apology AND an admission that he had a “problem.” Oh and the stripper, turns out my hair dresser knows her (small world I know hard to believe), I spoke to her, she tried to lie on his behalf (said she never touched him) then I called her on the lipstick…then I got the truth….So, don’t believe what you are told!
Whew, if that wasn’t enough…i found out he was married!!!!!! THAT ENDED THAT AND should be a BIG heads up to you. From that point on as far as I was concerned EVERYTHING he told me was a lie. Be careful and run as fast as you can! You may love him but he is very ill. You deserve better and he needs to seek professional help!
Don’t get me wrong, I am a business professional and come from a very good family. I know this sounds like Jerry Springer but it was too crazy a story and a reality check, not to share with you.
Best wishes
Comment from Kelli
Time November 4, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Oh man, this one sucks because its hard to walk away from someone you love who keeps promising potential and not delivering. I totally agree with the sex addict comment. It doesn’t take actual SEX to make a sex addict (if there is evidence of pornography use, sexual cultivation with these other women even if it doesn’t lead to actual sex, sex behavior changing with you, hiding and lying until caught and then justifying, etc…. Also with the lies — he is certainly a charmer and obviously actively using that skill to manage a “harem.” Classic addict behavior.
1. He’s grooming and cultivating other women.
2. He doesn’t respect you enough to stop something that is obviously a problem. One which he said he would change and did not.
3. He doesn’t respect your relationship enough to invest all of that energy back into making things richer between the two of you.
4. He doesn’t respect himself enough to get help.
5. He can’t seem to stop even when he knows he needs to.
Beattie and Mellody both write good books on the subject… Best wishes Pany and I hope something changes for the better soon!
Comment from Astara
Time July 14, 2008 at 9:05 am
Hi Pany,
I’ve been lurking on this site for a while now but this is the first time I am commenting. Because this is a very similar situation as I was once in I hope I can offer some perspective.
You hubby sounds like a sex-addict. Even if he does not physically act on it, he still has a compulsive need to engage in sexual fantasy with strangers at great pains and at great risk. He even admits that he does this because he can’t fully experience love. But common sense and maybe even our own experience tells us that cheating on your wife is NOT the way to resolve childhood pain and learn better ways to relate and love ourselves. He’s taking big risks to perpetuate his bad behaviour (the emotional and financial loss associated with divorce, financial damages with the phone bills, social damage if people find out about his behaviour etc.), which tells us he is compulsive. And you are condoning his behaviour by not leaving him so indeed there is no incentive for him to change. So if you stay in this situation you can expect him to continue doing what he is doing, which is basically cheating on you and (ab)using all these women that he is in contact with.
That said, I can sympathise with you wanting to make your marriage work. Moreover, your husband must be a very charming man, as evidenced by his ability to woo all these women. But I worry when I read that you want to ‘help him’. The fact is he can only help himself, and even that only if he WANTS help. So for you to want to help him even though he mistreats you seems like a waste of your precious energy. There may be a co-dependent dynamic going on here and I would advice you to read up on sex addiction, co-dependency and any advice for partners of sex addicts. Maybe this will change your perspective and motivate you to help yourself first. Sounds like you need to look out for number one more, because if you do, you will naturally find the strenght to not stay in this horrible situation.
Good luck with all of this Pany! I feel your pain, but I really think you will be better off without him.