Is He Lying To Himself?
A reader named Lisa just got dumped, but her ex-man was acting so sweet not so long ago. What gives? Is he lying to himself about his feelings? Mm…my answer to that question: Who cares?
Lemme ‘splain, after the details:
I’ve been seeing this guy for about three years. I know without a doubt I feel love for him. I also know that I have deeper feelings for him than he does for me. I just know.
Ouch. Sorry, Lisa, that always just blows.
Yet, when we’re together, he’s attentive, affectionate and caring. Three weeks ago he ended the relationship. His reasons were that he feels he can’t be in a committed relationship and he doesn’t “feel” about me the
way I do about him.
You know, that may be the best breakup you can hope for, in a way. I mean, it’s not “best” like in the category of “strawberry frosted poptarts are the best kind” or something. But at least he’s not giving you hope that isn’t there, like, “I’m just not ready for a relationship right now,” and all of those gems.
What confuses me is a short period before the breakup, he seemed to be himself..affectionate, wanting to see me, etc. So is the golden rule going on in this situation where what he says is not actually what he feels?
If you’re talking about the Manslations Golden Rule, that’s not about words and feelings. That’s about words and ACTIONS. As in, you listen to what he does, not what he says. And what he did here was:
- show you affection, and then later:
- end your relationship
This is not necessarily a contradiction, unless they happened simultaneously, you know? (Which…I can’t even picture doing both of those at exactly the same time.) First he wanted to be with you, THEN he decided he did not.
The attraction and chemistry is still obviously there. He admitted it. Why would he stay seeing me for so long if he didn’t feel something strong for me? Would it have lasted 3 yrs?
You just said it yourself — there’s an attraction. There’s chemistry. That doesn’t mean that you guys have what he wants for his own personal forever-and-ever. But what you DID have was nice enough that he had a hard time admitting that he wanted more. Took him 3 years, is what it seems.
Is he lying to me and himself about how he really feels? By the way, he also said there is no one else. Naturally I asked if that was the real reason for the breakup.
Dear Lisa,
Well, first of all, my condolences. It’s always crappy to break up, and sometimes there isn’t even a big “BANG” that causes it like that time when the universe started.
So what the eff went wrong? Nothing. Which is to say, it already WAS wrong.
Manslata what?
THE TIPPING POINT
I’ve written about the relationship speed bumps before. Places where guys seem to take stock and seem to “suddenly” realize that they want out of a relationship. For those of you playing the home version of our game, such bumps have been spotted at 1 month, 3 months, a year, just under 4 years, and there are many more. It’s not about how much time. It’s about whenever the dude takes stock of his life and wonders, “Is this all there is?”
Truth is, it’s not really sudden. And it’s not just men. We all do this. We have moments when we look at what we’ve got and think, “So…this, huh? Is this what I really want, forever?” Sometimes there’s something obvious that triggers it, sometimes not.
The point, Lisa, is that you don’t want to bother asking your last question — Is he lying to you AND HIMSELF about how he really feels? Don’t go down that rabbit hole, Lisa. Don’t do it. That way madness lay. And the answer doesn’t matter anyway.
But why wouldn’t the answer to that question matter?
BECAUSE IT DOESN’T
(Pretty great answer, huh?)
Seriously, though, what if he WAS lying to both of you about his feelings? He wasn’t, but what would it matter? The man dumped you. He made a decision to let you go. If he can bring himself to do that, let him do it. Don’t get caught thinking, “Oh that poor thing — he doesn’t even realize he’s in love with me!”
No.
He’s told you how he feels. He wants to feel like X, he feels like Y, and he’s decided he wants to keep looking for X. And he told you.
Seriously, take this information and run. It’s a gift. Honesty during a breakup is a gift.
And after all, why would he lie about this? If he was happy being in your relationship, he’d be, you know, happy.
IS THERE ANOTHER WOMAN?
Reasonable for you to ask him this. He said no. Was he telling the truth? Maybe yes, maybe no, but again, I swear it does not matter. Truly, it doesn’t. Whatever the reason, he’s been clear that his choice is to leave. And nobody leaves someone directly because they met someone else. Before you meet someone new, you’ve got to be dissatisfied with the someone OLD or you wouldn’t even see the new person. No way around it.
Let him go, take him at his word that, whatever else may be true, he does NOT feel what he wants to feel. Because if he DID feel what he wanted, he’d stay.
Good luck, Lisa. And again, I’m sorry this guy doesn’t want to stay. There will be guys who do, though.
What say ye? This guy lying to himself? To her? Hello?
Posted: November 28th, 2008 under Reader Requests.
Comments
Comment from T
Time November 28, 2008 at 2:00 pm
“Honesty during a breakup is a gift.”
I love this line, Jeff. As painful as it is, the honesty does help.
“And what he did here was:
* show you affection, and then later:
* end your relationship
This is not necessarily a contradiction, unless they happened simultaneously, you know? “
And in my case, they did. Ugh.
You know my story. This manslation does help. I just want to know when all of the post-breakup haunting ends…
Comment from Annmarie
Time November 28, 2008 at 3:40 pm
So on target. And exactly what I needed to hear, too. I recently had a similar breakup — though we were involved for far less time. He also said he didn’t feel what he wanted, and while that stinks I can see what Jeff means: it is a gift, too. There’s no getting around it.
Lisa, I wish you luck in letting go, healing, and moving on!
Comment from mmagnolia
Time November 28, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Dear Lisa,
Am saddened re-Your sadness.
*Thanking* Mr.Beloved for His honesty can ease some woefulness. Our BestBud *Time* will pick up the slack!
Eureka re-clarity of dearsJM/Liz C!!
[1] Those merciless *whys* are irrelevant [in the longer term!]…..and
[2]*Democracy* can be absent in R’ships.
[3] Thus, romanceR’ship canB more kin2 a monarchy, ruled by *Love* which is blind and wants what IT wants! We have all had far-worse rulers.
Sooo…ultimately, our *ships* = Blessed!
Comment from Dee
Time November 29, 2008 at 6:47 am
Definitely what I needed to hear as well. It still sucks, but time will heal …
Comment from Terry
Time November 30, 2008 at 9:30 am
Wow, what a great post, Jeff!
Love this:
“Seriously, take this information and run. It’s a gift. ”
The truth will set you free. Stop running the endless he-said-I-said reel through your mind.
Life is short! Enjoy it!
Comment from C
Time December 1, 2008 at 9:53 am
3 years… what an ass
Comment from Lisa
Time December 2, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Hey folks..this is Lisa. thanks to everyone for their supportive comments..I hope time does heal…the gift of honesty hurts nonetheless. And the hard part that I failed to mention in my original letter to Jeff is that we see each other all the time because we work in the same department. Not an easy situation. Since the breakup, he’s been very nice and friendly and even flirty at times, more so lately. It’s a couple of months now since the breakup. I care about him so much that I can’t bring myself to be a bitter, rejected B-word. So what does his behavior mean? Does he miss me?
Comment from KC
Time December 6, 2008 at 8:06 am
HeY Lisa,
Been there – done that. I’ve had a similar situation (haven’t we all?!) with a guy I dated for 1.5 years. We were together, he broke up with me, wanted me back, and eventualy just ended up dumping me again. WHy? Well after we break up with somone, I think it’s human nature to want the person back at some point because humans just want what they can’t have. HOwever, if a person was willing to give you up once, you can be pretty sure that the odds are he’d be willing to give you up again. Is that what you really want? YOu’ll spend more time/and end up getting rejected again. DOn’t do it. I say you try your hardest to move on, and find that guy who would never dream of giving you up. Best of luck. My heart goes out to you. At least you know that we’ve all experienced this at some point, and we all get over it. THe faster you can let this guy go and move on, the faster you’ll feel better! Trust me 
Comment from Gen
Time January 30, 2009 at 7:13 am
Lisa, if you still read the comments here, please listen. I was in this EXACT situation with a co-worker last year – the half-assed excuse for a break-up, the flirty, friendly, niceness afterwards, the whole thing. Don’t buy into the behaviour – this guy’s playing you like a harp. Find a new job, and delete all his contact details i.e. don’t contact him. If he wants you, let him find you. You learn from experience that this type of flakey guy is not worth the time or the feeling. Drop him like a hot potato and look for someone who values you enough to never mess you around.
Comment from Lisa
Time January 30, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Gen, this is Lisa. Thanks for the intelligent advice..it all makes perfect sense but unfortunately, where the heart is concerned, intelligence, common sense, etc., flies right out the window of reason. It’s partly my fault because I initiated contact, flirted a little, then bought into his response of flirtyness, niceness, etc. recently. I don’t want to be played like a harp, I’ve got to let go (tough one!)…I can’t leave my job–I have too many years vested. He’s not leaving either. This sucks.
Comment from Gen
Time January 30, 2009 at 11:46 pm
Hmm. I remember something that helped when I thought I couldn’t leave my job and would be fine working with him – I just turned a bit ‘cold’ on him, if that makes sense. Switched off. Appeared busy, even if I wasn’t. I continued talking with him, and was friendly, but in a rather business-like way. I made myself appear to forget the fact that he was there, not in an ignorant sense – more in an “Oh, I’ve got so much on my plate right now, and – oh, it’s you, yes hello, yes, well anyway, gotta run, you know how it is”, etc. One of my male friends also realised I was having man trouble, and he sent me some great txts about staying away from the co-worker. I used to re-read them whenever I thought I might try to revive things, and it really helped.
I know what you mean about the heart doing illogical things 
Is there any way you can transfer to another department, or find something to be involved in that would keep you away from him? Even something like a hobby, something that would distract you?
Comment from Rina
Time April 20, 2009 at 9:45 am
This is exactly what happened to me. It was after FIVE years, he dumped me. Now one year later, he is back, very repentant , saying that he made a mistake in wanting something else, for listening to his mind when it was me in his heart all along. He says he is willing to wait for me to forgive him, it has been four months now, and he is still there, sending me emails, sending me gifts and flowers. I have been ignoring them, sometimes being rude even, but still he persists. He is close to wearing me down and making me believe that he is sincere this time and that we could be happy and have a future together. What say you? help please…
Comment from mmagnolia
Time April 20, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Oh–Dearie Rina,
This! is Your easy part: Mr. Repentant is doing good actions+good words! Keep IT simple and sweet.
Maybe His *dumping* method matters, but if He was honest about it–as in, U’re “dumped”—give ‘plause 4that.
Seems: Only reasons 4U 2turn deaf are (1) U don’t love Him, as in LOVE Him + (2)U don’t want a “future together”!
If U want what He wants, seems U did [?] once B4, ribbon up the bouquet….and….
Oh–Promise Him, HappyHearts!
Comment from mmagnolia
Time April 20, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Footnote, Dearie Rina!
First, Be Honest with YourSelf;
Then…EveryCheer!
Comment from Rina
Time April 21, 2009 at 8:52 am
Thanks mmagnolia.. I guess am looking for reassurance that he won’t change his mind again, but then there are no guaranties in life, are there.. or maybe am punishing him… ‘coz I do still love him and cannot believe he would think I was not good enough then. Am also dragging it out coz I guess, I am waiting for him to change his mind again, or to give up..
Comment from mmagnolia
Time April 21, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Yes-Yes, Dear Rina….
….but, stand as a Sunflower!
My 1/2 cent followup = Is “waiting for him to change his mind again, or to give up” Your copout…a best hedge 4hiding!
Come-Come….Your hurt’s been had; You’re stronger and as lovey-dovey toward Him as He pledges, re-You.
Sooo what happens if U2 wait whole lifetimes w/o any*change* happening?
…Yipes! Love+HoneymoonCottage 4evr;
Toss some birdseed!
Comment from LK
Time April 22, 2009 at 6:36 am
Hey Rina – sure, guys can have real regret over losing something once they no longer have it. I think you are doing well to keep him at arm’s length, though. However, agree with Mag – he may well be genuinely repetent and be realizing what he lost. And although as you point out there are no guarantees in life, I think under the circumstances he sure could offer you a few. Like Mag, I wonder why you split in the first place? If he dumped you for someone else, run the other direction. If it was more of a “going to find myself” kind of thing, well, maybe he did.
Personally, if I was ready to crack, and the circumstances were right, I’d actually consider a very public LUNCH ONLY kind of date and sort through what’s going on with him and why. And let him know you aren’t ready to get crushed again and if by some bizarre circumstances you ended up together again, he’d have to allow you to come back in slowly and be accepting of that (ie steer clear of the sex thing, maybe?)
But, then again, if the dumping was brutal and/or involved anything other than his actual factual feelings for you, it might be time for a chat that he leave you alone. Period. And if he can’t respect that, well, consider that he’s being real obsessive and not honoring a personal boundary and would be that way in a re-relationship.
Good Luck!!
Comment from LK
Time April 22, 2009 at 6:42 am
And Lisa…as to the working together thing….sometimes it’s real hard to not be flirty, cute with each other. And there are moments of instojealousy, too, when he is being “thoughtful” with someone else in your department. Taking the very high business road is the best thing you can do for now. Make sure he’s not touching you, either, even if accidental – cause that just sucks and it’s certainly not accidental. But the “I’m busy” kind of thing is the best route, much as it hurts.
And maybe a picture of a new, hot guy on your desk would help too. ! Who cares if you actually know who it is…I’m just sayin’…!
All the Best!
LK
Comment from sarabella
Time April 22, 2009 at 12:19 pm
rina…thanks for sharing–talking reality is different than sharing rosy stuff, my habit.
it’s wonderful that your man is present, accounted for and being a glory to you.
mmag’s point on honesty w/self is good but what’s a girl to do beyond that is still mysterious. am *enjoying* similar saga but my guy is *mia* [imprisoned?].
the fact that you [eye, and similar others] have not moved on [whatever that means?] or reverted to our form from before The LOVE fell seems amazing, amusing and, if we let it be, instructive.
my best prescription is alternating tunes of *it had to be you*, *something’s gotta give*, and *don’t worry be happy*.
Comment from Rina
Time April 23, 2009 at 12:28 am
To: mmag and LK –
I said he dumped me.. but fact is prior to our parting ways, he was acting in ways that gave me no choice but to dump him – could be intentional “strategy” on his part, I think. He wouldn’t call when he said he would, small things he did would irritate me, we didn’t connect anymore, and I didn’t feel any affection coming from him. I broke off with him, hoping to jolt him back into being the way we were, but it never happened and he never tried to put things right
Two months later, he started dating someone else 15 yrs his junior (he is 46 I am 43), they broke up after six months, and 4 months after that, he was back knocking on my door. BTW, one of the reasons he gave me for his so called “grass is greener” syndrome is that he thought he wanted to have a family – i.e. kids ( I don’t – and we both have never been married before). Also, the “girl” he went out with had a Masters degree, he has a double Masters and a Doctorate as well. I am a “regular” university grad. – had me thinking that he thought I was not good enough. His previous ex before me for six years is a doctor. He also told me the reason he left was that he had an “idea” in his head about who he should be with, and that he found out it wasn’t what made him happy because even though he was with that other person, he would always be thinking of me. What keeps me from welcoming him with open arms is that since he has not realized his “dream” relationship, he is now just “settling” on me, or that once we are together, he will change his mind and realize he can’t give up his “dream” after all.
The reason I am posting now is as mmag said – be honest w/ thineself. I seem to have gotten over my anger and bitterness, and just want to be with him again. Am looking for someone else’s take on the situation. Most my friends are still angry at him for what he did, except for one who says – I won’t be able to move on coz I still love him, so might as well get back together again. I am happy now, with my close friends around me, and I can live w/o him in my life, but only if he’d just let me be.
Comment from Rina
Time April 23, 2009 at 12:28 am
To: mmag and LK –
I said he dumped me.. but fact is prior to our parting ways, he was acting in ways that gave me no choice but to dump him – could be intentional “strategy” on his part, I think. He wouldn’t call when he said he would, small things he did would irritate me, we didn’t connect anymore, and I didn’t feel any affection coming from him. I broke off with him, hoping to jolt him back into being the way we were, but it never happened and he never tried to put things right
Two months later, he started dating someone else 15 yrs his junior (he is 46 I am 43), they broke up after six months, and 4 months after that, he was back knocking on my door. BTW, one of the reasons he gave me for his so called “grass is greener” syndrome is that he thought he wanted to have a family – i.e. kids ( I don’t – and we both have never been married before). Also, the “girl” he went out with had a Masters degree, he has a double Masters and a Doctorate as well. I am a “regular” university grad. – had me thinking that he thought I was not good enough. His previous ex before me for six years is a doctor. He also told me the reason he left was that he had an “idea” in his head about who he should be with, and that he found out it wasn’t what made him happy because even though he was with that other person, he would always be thinking of me. What keeps me from welcoming him with open arms is that since he has not realized his “dream” relationship, he is now just “settling” on me, or that once we are together, he will change his mind and realize he can’t give up his “dream” after all.
The reason I am posting now is as mmag said – be honest w/ thineself. I seem to have gotten over my anger and bitterness, and just want to be with him again. Am looking for someone else’s take on the situation. Most my friends are still angry at him for what he did, except for one who says – I won’t be able to move on coz I still love him, so might as well get back together again. I am happy now, with my close friends around me, and I can live w/o him in my life, but only if he’d just let me be.
To sarabella, tks for the tip ?
Comment from Rina
Time April 23, 2009 at 12:30 am
hmmm the smiley became a question mark..
Comment from sarabella
Time April 23, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Rina….Rina,
feel the whiplash, but Mr.Repentant seems as worse victim. it’s good knowing what we want, even if in series.
it’s ok if his want is for stuff bought from shelves [humhum...degrees and nubile bods are off the rack---meaning, anyone w/time, moola & zeal can have 'em---of course, exclude the babymaking.
yens and gotta-haves are ok; my little heart salivates for some babybrowns but my him being unbrown of eye is no dealbreaker.
that's one heart of it... ask what his dealmakers are, let him know yours [you've shared at least three, here].
maybe he realizes that off-the-shelf dreammaking equates to spending more time *shopping* than *smooching*.
simply sit-snuggle, walk through what both of you want in a loving partner 4now and—fast forward some decades–4later.
Rina…maybe honesty w/another is what best follows mmag’s honesty w/self.
swell, if he’s evolved but also swell if he’s wanting to be fickle. what can be unswell is his fickleness being your mismatch.
Comment from sarabella
Time April 25, 2009 at 11:13 pm
Rina….
my caution on the advice of family/friends (the real & the virtual) is don’t be tootoo swayed. you’ve come to know you best.
please return w/results [also,lisa--still there?], if results shareable.
humhum, have poodle w/similar pounding.
Comment from Selena
Time April 26, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Rina,
I was in a situation similar to yours 20-24 mos. ago. Relationship was 4.5 yrs total, lots of ups and downs particularly the last year + was really rocky. In the following years we kept in touch sporadically, the “Hi how ya doing?” type thing. (I had moved away.)
Four years after our breakup I called to let him know I was living in another state and to catch up a little. He totally surprised me by telling me he wanted us to try again, would I move in with him? Turns out we were both very recently out of bad relationships. So bad they made “ours” look not so bad in comparison. I wasn’t about to just jump right in with him so we spent months reconnecting by email and phone.
In one of his emails he said he had always loved me, never stopped, and every time he lost me (meaning times we weren’t in touch I suppose) it was like losing a part of himself. Now, I still loved him, but in 4 years I had made the emotional transition from loving him as a partner to loving him as an old friend. Still, after a few months of reconnect I decided to go ahead and give a relationship with him another shot. Felt that I was going into it hoping for the best, but with my eyes wide open. Made plans to move to be with him at the end of the summer.
Four days before I was to leave we talked on phone, everything was fine – “I love you, can’t wait to see you.” TWELVE HOURS later I receive an email from him telling me he was sorry but he was calling it off. Talk about shock! He never responded to any futher emails or phone messages from me. To this day, 20 mos. later I have no idea what happened with or to him.
I’m sharing this odd tale with you because I think it is very healthy for you to be skeptical of how well it would work with your ex “the second time around”. And to question how sincere he is about wanting a life together. Could it be that he is romantizing your past relationship a bit because he hasn’t found another, satisifying one yet? Be as objective with yourself as possible as to how good your relationship really was, what you could realisticly expect it to be after a year apart.
If you are happy enough without your ex, you know you could just tell him No means No and start refusing all contact with him to stop him from drawing you back in. But,if you think you will always wonder if it could have worked out…maybe you are better off following your one friend’s advice about giving it another try. Cautiously optomistic, but with your eyes wide open.
In my case, hindsight being 20/20, I suspect a new relationship with my ex likely wouldn’t have been any better than what we had before. But you know, I don’t regret at all my willingness to try. Despite how it turned out.
All my best to you.
Selena
Comment from Rina
Time April 26, 2009 at 10:42 pm
Thank you for all you input ladies. Finally had our “talk” yesterday afternoon, and basically both committed that we want this and will make it work. Will keep you guys in the loop should any important “developments” come up.
Thanks again.
Comment from sarabella
Time April 26, 2009 at 11:00 pm
rina, rina…
wonderful news to begin our week!
thank you twice to both of ya, and sweetest sails onto your sunset….
Comment from Liz C
Time November 28, 2008 at 11:38 am
Ouch. I think you nailed it, Jeff, as crappy as it is. Relationships aren’t democracies. If one person says it’s over, it’s over. You don’t get a vote.
Sucks, but true.
