What do Men Think of Well Paid Women
Welcome back, ladies. Today we’ve got a variation on a theme that we’ve seen before, people. What happens when a woman does really, really well for herself, financially? Does this have an effect on men?
What do men really think of women who happen by accident of genetics or fear of poverty or whatever to be successful and well paid?
Dear Michele,
Interesting question, Michele, and it reminds me of the one about whether or not men are intimidated by strong women. But it adds the specific element of MONEY. Cash. Cold, hard, samollians. Clams. Er…greenbacks…oh…ok, I think I’m out.
Is a man affected by the fact that a woman is financially successful — more successful than he is, for example? The answer is:
MAYBE
Ok, let’s be a tiny bit more helpful than that, shall we, Jeff? Great.
First of all, he’s less likely to think about what YOU make, and more likely to think about the fact that maybe HE makes less. It’s the stuff about how it reflects upon him that you might come up against.
WHY MEN NEED TO MAKE MORE MONEY THAN WOMEN – USEFULNESS!
Look, not all men need to make more money than their woman. (Hell, if Liz wants to suddenly become a millionaire, I will be more than honored to help her spend it. I’ve had my eye on a scepter carved from a single gigantic ruby, and I just haven’t put together the scratch to grab it.) It does happen, though. It probably used to happen more than it does these days, but it’s still around. Why? What do men have at stake here?
- WHAT AM I GOOD FOR? This is a big one for a lot of men. Lots of guys think that they are only as desirable as they are CAPABLE. Some guys feels like if you don’t NEED them, you’re not going to WANT them. This is why we love to be able to set up the surround sound, format the hard drive, change the oil in the car, or whatever other “manly” areas of understanding there are. With money, there can be a similar thing.
- WHAT WILL THE GUYS SAY? Many, if not all, men are competitive in some way or another. With themselves, with their idiot friends, with whatever the standard is in their field. And if other people know that a man’s woman makes twice what he makes, he might get his share of jokes and jibes. Whether it’s true, false, outdated, or whatever, there IS a stereotype that the man is The Breadwinner. If the woman is making more, some people are going to see that not as a success for HER, but a failure for HIM. And they might let him know.
What do these two things have in common? INSECURITY.
If a man isn’t very secure in himself and/or if his circle of acquaintance can’t get over the 1950’s, one or both of these things might come into play. But what about a man who IS fairly secure in himself?
WHAT HE DOESN’T EVEN KNOW THAT HE DOESN’T KNOW
The real answer is this, Michele. If you are a very successful woman, you might bounce up against some unexamined preconceptions he’s got about himself, life, gender roles, dinner rolls, etc.
As we all know, men often still make more than women in the same jobs. Obviously, that’s changing, but just as obviously it’s still around. (P.S. I’m sorry about that. It’s not my fault. I’ve never been a boss, and was therefore never invited to be involved in the Dread Patriarchy. I know I should try to ascend into that and change it from the inside, but…well, I like to sleep in…)
The point is that even guys who would be totally cool with a woman out-succeeding him might NEVER HAVE DATED ONE. He might have never had the chance to examine all of the stereotypes he’s got built in there about the Breadwinner, and what it says about a man that makes less than a woman.
SO WHAT SHOULD YOU DO IF YOU’RE SUCCESSFUL?
What do you do if you make a ton of cash, and are doing really, really well?
- DON’T APOLOGIZE FOR IT: Look, you make what you make. He makes what he makes. You shouldn’t have to pretend to make less than him. That won’t help him, it won’t help you, and who has the energy? Not me. (Though to be fair I haven’t gone to the gym as much as I should lately.)
- DON’T LORD IT OVER HIM, EITHER: Just as you don’t want to be playing down who you are and what you do, you don’t need to play UP that angle. It wouldn’t be very fun if he did that either. Powerplays in either direction rarely help a relationship. Unless your relationship is held during a hockey game (in which case, hey, slam him!)
- WHY DO YOU NEED HIM AROUND? You don’t need his money. But you do need/want him around right? And if you do, treat him that way. Don’t go out of your way to tell him how LITTLE you need him. Whatever it is that you DO love/want/need him for, just don’t forget to let him see that.
- COMPETE WITH HIM? I was going to say NOT to play up the competitive element in this, but some couples really get off on competition with each other. I’m not in one of those, and wouldn’t want to be. But some are and would. If you’re in a relationship that thrives on competition between the two of you, this might actually be a turn-on. Just know what works for YOU.
Good luck, Michele. I’d say just be who you are, and let him know why you want to be with him. No matter what you make vs. what he makes, that one always works with the right person.
What’s your experience, successful ladies? How do the boys treat’cha?
Posted: December 1st, 2008 under Reader Requests.
Comments
Comment from GracieB
Time December 1, 2008 at 7:11 pm
hmmm… Interesting. I don’t think I’ve ever been attracted to a guy because of what I thought he could do for me, financially or otherwise.
“Hey, this guy could fix my radiator!”
I’m starting to get that men kind of find themselves repulsive. Reminds me of that Christopher Hitchens quote on why men work so hard to be funny: “Most men are fantastically unattractive. What women see in them is a mystery to most men as well as most women.”
Well we do like you! Nature is smarter than you so stop trying to rewire the stereo console and get over here!
Maybe we could talk about our feelings for 2 hours…I’m kidding, I’m kidding…
Comment from mmagnolia
Time December 1, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Dear Michele,
Bingo! re-the JM+SusanDears’ theory on *security*. Being or merely feeling secure is a Heaven on earth–altho’ none of us are always in everyway!
Let’s skip defining the ideal “success”, which ignores balance sheets! Yep, would agree w/mmoi, even if wealthy!
On plateau where success = moola:
Cause2compare usually boils down to: [a] problematic ego…as in feeling-less-than (Rmore-than) because of blah-blah, or [b] simple practicality….as in whoever-has-excess-pesos, pays [yep! T'is kind 4the poorer2insist & 4the richer2accept].
Talking “roles”, let’s apply equal notions onto that other brioche…an unheeled femme + well-heeled [!re-coins] gent.
Lastly, on agenda of *need vs. want*, those 2R sometimes tricky. My most intricate debates about which is sweeter2hearts [being needed Rwanted] were…with my DarlingMom. She mantained ‘need’ as essential. She’s no less adorable deceased, but am gonna stick 2my story that ‘want’ is our best imperative, specially in ourDearest r’ship!
BTW: If DearGracieB’s Chris Hitchens is the He methinks, there’s an Oops! Am wondering if he preceded his comment about men being “fantastically unattractive” w/full disclosure that His own Beloved is one o’dem “men”? Gee, wonder if he’s yet sleeping on the couch!
As ever, bottomline = Best can thrive when Best realSelf flourishes.
Sooo….Ms. Michele, Flourish!
Comment from hunter
Time December 2, 2008 at 7:35 am
The few women that I have been so fortunate to have around, that earned more than I do,,,,,,,had an attitude problem to go with it. It almost seems as if, ‘tude’, and money are a “package”.
Comment from Miss Curious
Time December 3, 2008 at 2:07 am
I have to say that my experience has been similar. I think Jeff hit it on the head with men being needed. I am a single mum and financially secure – without any involvement from the father. I know that freaks men out.
I am intelligent, hot, and happy alone. But when I have dated someone I take care to tell them what I like about them and appreciate. It still seems to shake them off though. I’m sure I do come across as a bitch at times though – it slips out sometimes:P
Comment from mmagnolia
Time December 3, 2008 at 8:27 am
All Dears,
..specially, Mom!
Oops…I recline, corrected by my experience over logic. Needs and wants can be natural co-conspirators.
Oops2…*want* of myOne man-of-heart does trespass indeed onto *need*. [in noncomplex senses, as hunger, thirst].
Oops3…as part of Divinedesign. ”need” doesn’t diminish self, w/o Our! assist.
Wonderfilled Wednesday, w/cheers!
Comment from hunter
Time December 4, 2008 at 9:45 pm
to Miss Curious,
OMG!……..”it slips out sometimes?”………Almost sounds as if you are enjoying having it slip out at times!……LOL!..
Comment from mmagnolia
Time December 4, 2008 at 10:23 pm
hunterDear,
Yep…ditto that; smiled2!
…oh, well, girlz gotta have s-o-m-e fun!
Comment from hunter
Time December 4, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Hi MMag!
Yes, women can do that and still have fun, but if a man gets bitchy with a woman, most likely, we won’t get serviced!!!…….
Comment from Bloomsbury Bell
Time December 5, 2008 at 6:05 pm
You get served, more likely.
Comment from Miss Curious
Time December 5, 2008 at 8:06 pm
I have had a few slips on dates. I’m not a mean person in the least though, I just have a sarcastic sense of humour that I let fly if I feel comfortable with someone. That’s when it’s fun to let it “slip” out 
Comment from hunter
Time December 5, 2008 at 10:09 pm
I remember growing up with a sarcastic parent. It wasn’t until I got into relationships did I “see” how I was raised.
Comment from mmagnolia
Time December 5, 2008 at 10:45 pm
hunterDear,
As we say in this neck o’the woods, U will live a longtime ’cause wondered earlier whether Lady Manslatees should coddle or shun gents, hereabouts.
I say “coddle”—Everytime!
But…seems 2mmoi that those “relationships” U think2B “into” could be better than ….elusive!
Please! even variants of the *B* word Rnaturally unevolved and triple-so when used by a gentleman, we presume!
Unfortunate upbringing, but let it slither. Enjoy Your in-the-now-as-Adult moments, hailing any *opposite* of “sarcastic”.
Now, indulge this: MerciBouquets 2DearBloomsbury Bell, 4adorableTouche;
We know YourSelf smiled; Smile again!
Comment from Miss Curious
Time December 6, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Hunter – not sure of your meaning?
I know my sarcasm stems from me finally not being afraid to say it like I see it. If I sense BS in a guy I will call him out on it and use sarcastic humour to do it.
Comment from hunter
Time December 7, 2008 at 2:14 am
to Miss Curious,
I think most men, really try not to BS a woman. We have to consider the fact that most of us, we are not in our early 20’s, meaning, we have experienced life in different ways. Yet, where do single people draw that fine line between the truth and diplomacy/tactfulness, without hurting your soul mate/significant other?…….to add to it,,,,,,,I am told,,,,, a woman can rationalize almost anything a man says, when she is attracted to him…
Comment from mmagnolia
Time December 7, 2008 at 11:13 pm
hunter, Dear!
Please…here’s help 4U on that “fine line” between truth and diplomacy: It’s called the Golden Rule–been around 4epochs.
Doing unto others as wanting done is ultimate rationalization. If one wants truth, DO truth.
Here’s the kicker—Every DearHeart wants truth because it’s a better *operatve* 4body and 4spirit.
Of course, rendering 2Caesar is not a promise that CaesarBabe will do likewise. Joy comes in having a sweet smile whenever near a mirror!
BTW: let’s footnote Your “rationalze” theory. I think all of us humans *choose* 2rationalize good & bad behaviors when… we choose2.
This is true in Love and in Politics. One bakes better choosing thusly in LoveStuff than in politicalstuff, but t’is what t’is!
It’s okay [really!] that there’s Grand commonality amongst Behavors & Choices of menfolk and womenfolk.
Differences shared, enliven; sooo, 2Life!
Comment from hunter
Time December 9, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Sweet smile near a mirror, I like that one…
Comment from mmagnolia
Time December 9, 2008 at 10:58 pm
H, Dear,
Indulge: Have *One* for all of us!
Comment from Susan
Time December 1, 2008 at 10:32 am
When I first met my now ex-husband he was in school almost full-time. I wasn’t making gobs of money, but certain made more than him (much to my parents’ initial chagrin, btw). It was uncomfortable for both of us at times, so in addition to what Jeff listed I’d suggest you limit the money you spend — and might expect to be spent — on gifts. Be creative and cheap instead. (One of the best gifts I got from my first BF was a dozen paper roses – literally he had colored and cut them out and mailed them to me. (Hey, I was 17, but I still think it was sweet.) And let your man pay for things once in a while, assuming you’re both working. Again, it doesn’t have to be (and shoudn’t be) about spending a certain amount of money, but it can go a long way in boosting the ego.
And after all of that, if he can’t be secure enough in himself to appreciate your success, you might need to find someone who does.