She Just Got Engaged to a Formerly Ex-Smoker
Happy April Fools Day, miladies! And no, this post will not be a “practical joke.” I hate practical jokes. Not only are they pretty light on the funny for a “joke” but they are almost never very “practical.” So let’s get to our regularly scheduled manslation, shall we?
Interesting dilemma. A woman just got engaged to a guy who WAS an ex-smoker. But he’s just started up again. She’s considering dropping him. What to do? Let’s take a look.
Hi Jeff
What do you do when you just got engaged to an ex-smoker who started smoking again? I am a non-smoker and my rule has always been in my mind to never date or even marry a smoker.
Man, am I with you there. I find smoking to be the cause of pretty much one of the most disgusting smells known to man. And I live in New York City, so I know about all of the best kinds of bad smells, ok?
I am considering dropping the guy.He says I am too extreme: it’s not like he is being violent, manipulative, disrespectful, idiot,etc. He is right about that.
Yes, well, he’s not being violent of course. Manipulative? Maybe not — although he IS telling you what should not be bothering you when it clearly IS bothering you. That’s a little manipulative.
Disrespectful? Same thing — he’s not considering what bothers YOU, only what shouldn’t bother you from his perspective. Not the least respectful thing in the world, but you know, it’s not great.
Idiot? Well, without even breaking a sweat I could find plenty of statistics that might make him rethink that.
But if his point was, “Hey, there are tons of ways in which I could be a worse boyfriend,” then yes, he is correct.
Ok, sure, I am a little biased on this one. Certain smells drive me up the wall, ok? This happens to be among them.
But the question remains the same. It’s driving me crazy, and I can’t see my kids being raised by a smoker. He has no real intention of quitting.
Help!
A non-smoker.
Dear non-smoker,
This is a tough one. I mean, it is his “choice” to do this. I put that word in quotes because nicotine is, you know, addictive. How much of a “choice” are we talking about here, anyway? But we’re all free to do whatever we want. He’s free to smoke, and you’re free to stay. Or leave.
But which should you do? Well, are a couple of things I’d think about:
DON’T ASSUME HE’LL STOP LATER
Why would he? He just started again. Voluntarily. He knows how hard it was to quit before, so I’m assuming he doesn’t have any plans to stop. If the fact that it bothers YOU doesn’t factor into that decision now, why would it later?
DECIDE: IS THIS A DEALBREAKER?
You say you can’t see your kids being raised by a smoker. I’m assuming we’re talking about hypothetical kids, yes? Or do you already have ‘em and he’s coming into the picture after the fact?
Either way, given the fact that he IS a smoker and will likely stay one, can you get past that or not? Doesn’t really matter what someone ELSE finds to be a justifiable reason to stay or go. This is about YOU, and your future.
WHATEVER THE ANSWER IS, TELL HIM
Every relationship has its boundaries. In some relationships, sex with other partners is totally cool. In some relationships, it’s called “cheating” and would result in the offending party having his “head cut off with a machete.” It’s all about the specifics.
We don’t always know what our person’s boundaries are until we cross them. Has he crossed one of yours? Or can you see yourself stretching your boundaries to include this behavior which had, previously, been OUT of bounds?
Since this person is someone with whom you, presumably, had thought to be spending the rest of your life with, I’d say you owe it to yourself and to him to be VERY straight with each other about what’s going on.
ACCEPT YOUR OWN ANSWER TO THIS
I’ve spent lots and lots of time around smokers in my life. Many smokers are experts in telling you why you’re wrong for hating it. It doesn’t smell that bad, it doesn’t last that long. Whatever it is. The late, great Bill Hicks once did a bit about how non-smokers should keep in mind that they’re going to die too. Yes, Bill, we all know that. Some of us just don’t want to smell like Dennis Leary’s gums in the meantime.
The point is, however you feel about this, that’s how you feel about it. He can tell you you’re being unreasonable, fine. But your boundaries are your boundaries, right? You’re allowed to have a boundary that someone else finds unreasonable.
FINALLY, BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF
Look, if this is a problem for you and you don’t see it ever NOT being a problem for you, don’t hope that one day you’ll get over it. Either decide to get over it, or don’t assume you’ll do so later.
And by the same token, if you CAN live with it, don’t stick to your guns just to be stubborn. The point is that when you’re marrying someone, you’re saying, “This is who I choose to be with. Forever.” That’s the plan, anyway. Don’t say that sentence with an asterisk at the end of it.
Good luck, non-smoker. Everyone has flaws. When you marry someone, you’re accepting that person’s flaws as a part of the package. If you can’t do that even now when you’re just getting IN, well, don’t get locked in.
I’ll close it out with this. If I were to start up a habit and I then found out it drove Liz absolutely nuts…I mean…how could I justify not quitting?
What do you think, ladies? What’s non-smoker’s move here?
Posted: April 1st, 2009 under Reader Requests.
Comments
Comment from AnneZ
Time April 1, 2009 at 8:23 am
Wow, this is a painful situation. Jeff went into all the nuances of the situation and topped it off with a fantastic statement that should have you thinking. Maueen added some more of the nuance about love and compromise. I’m just going to be simple. Smoking is a very strong component of a lifestyle. Not just the mess and health issues, but the expense. When you add up the jingle he’s going to spend on smokes per year you are going to have one more stressor for the marriage (#1 issue for marriages is finances). I know someone whose wife took up smoking after 20 years of marriage. He started sleeping on the couch. They’re divorced now and their two youngest kids took up the habit. None of this bodes well. As Jeff says, if you decide to be okay with it, really really really be okay with it and all its collateral issues including the vision of your children becoming smokers. If you’re not okay with it, you’re not alone at all. For many of us, it’s a deal breaker. I do have compassion for the nicotine addicts, but you gotta choose how you want to live your life.
Comment from debra
Time April 1, 2009 at 11:50 am
If he knew it was a strong issue for you, and chose to start again, and is now telling you it’s your problem, this is a terrible sign of things to come. Today, smoking, tomorrow, buying a motorcycle you’re against, planning an expensive trip with friends you don’t approve of (the trip, not the friends), having a girlfriend because he deserves to be happy….. I’m exagerating a lot here, but the underlying disrespect for something you feel strongly about suggests that he feels his wishes, needs and wants are more important than yours, and that is no way to start a marriage. Listen to your gut on this.
Comment from Selena
Time April 1, 2009 at 4:23 pm
“He has no real intention of quitting”.
That’s all the information you need right there.
If you can’t see your life (with or without potential children) being tolerant of your partners smoking – he’s not the one for you.
If you keep this going, you will end up nagging him to quit and getting frustrated. He will get frustrated with you nagging him to quit. Both of you might well start fighting about all kinds of other things because of your frustration over the smoking issue.
I know. I’ve been on both sides.
If you can’t accept being a partner to a smoker acknowledge that and move on. I can’t stress that enough.
Comment from smoky smokerson
Time April 2, 2009 at 10:28 am
principles are all fair and well and good luck to the person who wants them and applies them to the nth degree in life. but crikey riley, if my boyfriend decided to get his nipples pierced and i was anti-piercings, would i dump him over it? the answer is no. if you love someone, you love them warts and all. i wouldn’t recommend dumping a potential father of your children over something so ridiculous as smoking. if you gained 50lbs once you’d had children, would it be fair for him to dump you because it was his principle to only be married to a size 4?! i think not. no offence non-smoker but it seems to me you’re looking for a reason to dump him and his taking up smokings looking like your best option. stop hiding and start straight-forward dumping!
Comment from Annie
Time April 2, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Ok… I’m going to come at you with a different perspective. I’ve been and on and off smoker for about 7 years. I’m currently “off” and do so hope to stay that way. Most smokers that are “lifers” never quit or even try. The fact that he wanted to quit and did quit before means that he isnt ok with being a smoker for forever. I’ve been with people that had a problem with me smoking and were jerks about it and threatened to leave if I didnt quit.. it made me feel unloved by them, unaccepted, dis-respected, and quite frankly very annoyed. NOW on the other hand. The relationship Im in now.. he told me that he didnt want me to smoke because he wants me to live a long time.. but its my choice and he is there no matter what. He didnt make me feel inferior or less important for smoking. But he let it be known that he wanted me to quit and would really support it. That made me REALLY want to quit and stick with it. When it comes down to it people have to do things for themselves first. So if you throw up this ultimatum (quit or Im gone) he is going to sneak smoking probably and resent you for not loving him the way he is … You said yes to marrying him Im assuming .. So I find it hard to believe you would be willing to leave him over somthing like this ?? Maybe … there is something else going on and the smoking is a scape goat? Anyways .. I noticed a lot of posts from non-smokers and never-smokers so I figured Id toss out the point of view of a ex- smoker. Good luck !
Comment from mybest
Time April 2, 2009 at 4:07 pm
You are the only one who can make this decision for yourself. Choose to marry him as a smoker with the expenses, smells, illness and the foreknowledge that he will be jonesing and distracted during all all crises and celebrations because he will NEED TO SMOKE.
Smoking is a very insidious addiction; some people can be happy married to a smoker, others can’t.
There is an online support group for non smoking partners at quitnet.com look up juliekay3′s story if you get there.
Be really clear with yourself here that you are choosing life with him as a smoker or you are choosing life without him. Don’t buy the promise to change or the guilt of people who compare smoking to weight. The real comparisons are to addictions like heroin or cocaine.
Good luck.
Comment from Selena
Time April 2, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Just to play devil’s advocate: the addictions to nicotine and excessive calories aren’t that drastically different. Both can effect health negatively. Both can affect personality if the “addict” is deprived of their “fix”. Both addictions can be very hard to overcome, and in some cases a life long struggle.
Comment from karin
Time April 3, 2009 at 3:04 am
in my opinion, there are a lot of other things worthy to get upset about. IT’s true, he can be a lot worse. He can hit you. He can verbally abuse you. He can cheat on you. SMoking, in comparison, is a walk in the park.
Perhaps you can compromise? Instead of telling him to stop completely, jsut tell him to smoke outside.
I mean, what are your addictions. Do you like to shop? WOuld you hate it if he told you to stop shopping completely? Or do you think it would make more sense if he says” Sure, you can shop, just not with my own money”
I agree. You should stretch your boundaries on this one.
Comment from Canberra Dave
Time April 3, 2009 at 7:57 am
One of the basic rules of life is this: there is *no* *such* *thing* as an ex-smoker. There are only smokers who – for the time being – are not engaging in their habit for whatever reason. It’s one of the most wickedly addictive drugs known to science, people don’t ever give it up permanently.
Once you understand that, then decide whether you want to be in a relationship with a smoker or not.
Comment from Mary
Time April 3, 2009 at 11:05 am
I think you are just looking for a reason to dump him. Since he was once a non-smoker I am really surprized that neither Jeff or anyone thought maybe he is nervous about spending the rest of his life with you? Or just pre-wedding jitters. I have a g-friend who’s husband can smoke a cigarette then go 5 years or more before he smokes another one. If this was another addiction herion, alcohol would this even be a discussion?
I have been on both sides too. When I smoke I go outside or to my car. My ex-husband smoked trust me that was not the cause of our becoming exes. As Annie I believe mentioned how would you feel if he was dumping you because of shopping or because you got fat? Everyone has a fear of something, everyone is addicted to something. He should run from you. Sorry Jeff, you missed this one.
Comment from mybest
Time April 4, 2009 at 1:58 am
I think that you folks don’t get it. Nicotine hijacks a person’s brain chemistry in a waty that 99.985% of the population will want a cigarette about every thirty minutes.
Watch the videos of the woman who smokes through the hole in her throat or of the mother who had her son wheel her hospital bed outside so she could smoke while she was too ill to toilet herself.
I myself missed some of the greatest moments of my life because the call of the addiction came first before food or sex or money.
I missed the birth of my first grandchild because I needed to smoke.
Accept that you are with someone who may always be having that desire more than he desires what is going on now.
Some people choose the person in spite of that, others won’t have it anywhere in their lives.
I know what it is and the what it takes to break free. I also know that my own Mom can’t go without hers long enough to share a meal with me even though she knows how sick smokd makes me.
We are both still alive and I miss her like crazy.
Comment from mybest
Time April 4, 2009 at 10:52 am
This link is from another former smoker who almost lost her daughter. She says that the crisis would have been about her and her need to smoke if she still did.
https://forums.quitnet.com/aspBanjo/Message_View.asp?conference_id=10&forum_id=8&Message_ID=14076619
Comment from LA Lady
Time April 4, 2009 at 6:09 pm
One thing that has not been mentioned yet is the impact second-hand smoke can have on people. Most people think that smoking causes lung cancer and that is the thing to worry about, actually it affects the cardio-vascular system even more than the lungs. If children are around people smoking they have a higher incidence of life threatening asthma attacks as well as seeing the bad example of a role model smoking.
I think “non-smoker” went into the relationship wanting to date a non-smoker, and for her fiance to change his mind about smoking is a bait and switch.
This is not like other addictions because it affects everyone around you, excess food, and drugs don’t cause the family to have significant health issues.
Comment from indian_girl
Time April 4, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Sorry guys, every person has some flaws ! Being fat, shopping dont cause kids some ‘danger’ as much as a father who smokes !
My father smoked, when I was a child, I hated to get close to him to play, for the awful smell ! He never smoked at home though ! He has quit innumerable number of times, once he even promised me that he’d quit ! Would it be the case, if a parent is fat,or shops, that a child cant go play with a parent ?
What are you doing here, pointing out a person’s natural flaws and comparing to some dangerous addiction ? And betcha, you guys are smokers, who need to point out saying ur fat, so ur not perfect, and so u shudnt be bothered to live with a smoker ? Oops ! UnReasonable Logic !
Jeff, as usual, Awesome advice on this one too ! Especially loved your closing note, about if some habit bothered Liz, how could you justify not quitting ?
Comment from Laura
Time April 5, 2009 at 9:58 pm
I’ve read some comments regarding how other bad habits can also be unhealthy. Smoking is not only unhealthy for the smoker, but extremely GROSS to the non smoker. I used to have a smoker boyfriend and, boy, was it disgusting to wake up in the morning with that horrid smell! It put me in a bad mood for the rest of the day. I can totally relate and understand breaking off a relatioship because of that.
Comment from AnneZ
Time April 6, 2009 at 1:34 pm
It certainly is not like any other “flaw.” I love dogs and have learned to cope with the mess they create. So have millions of others. Would it be okay if we carried around bags of dog droppings with us? It smells terrible to everyone nearby and could cause problems related to health, but that’s just my little flaw. How about us dog lovers carry around bags full of dog hair and sprinkle them wherever we go? What, you mean that would be unpleasant and rude to those who don’t love dogs? Can I ask my dog hating spouse to do without a dishwasher repair because I have to pay veterinary bills?
As Jeff pointed out, people need to be okay with the lifestyle habits of the other party. Dog lovers would probably do better together and smokers would probably do better together. These are very big things in your house and checkbook. Marriage is about how you live your life every single day–usually your odds are going to be better if you agree on the big things.
Comment from Selena
Time April 6, 2009 at 3:12 pm
“Marriage is about how you live your life every single day–usually your odds are going to be better if you agree on the big things.”
Yep.
True of dogs, smoking, calories, shopping, gambling..whatever.
Comment from Lulu
Time April 7, 2009 at 8:07 pm
i think you need to put it into perspective to help him understand why its such an issue for you, like for example- get him to imagine how he’d feel if you took up a block-a-day chocolate addiction, how he’d feel if you put on 30kgs & kept growing, how he’d feel about the health problems the extra weight would cause (like smoking does) & how he’d feel about his children being exposed to that (like your kids exposed to a smoker), how he’d feel about the extra money to feed your addiction (just pretend you’re addiction only includes the finest belgium lol), how he’d feel if you didnt care that you were becoming less & less attractive to him (like a smoker is to you) etc. maybe it will help him to understand.
But he has to do it for himself, I agree that motivating him with the health benefits for HIM will help, addicitons are all pretty much the same, I used to be a smoker of not just ciggarettes & the only way to break it in my experience is to decide for yourself & to stop & thats it..
Maybe as well try to ask him questions about the addicion, how he feels about it, how he feels when he smokes, when he first started again, what was he feeling/thinking at the time. The more comfortable he feels & the more he feels like you’re trying to listen to his side of the story & understand where he’s coming from, the more he will listen to you. It would at least take the problem out of the closet, which always makes stuff easier to deal with.
Comment from MAUEEN
Time April 1, 2009 at 8:05 am
Sounds like something she can’t live with and I honestly don’t see it getting easier to live with. This could become a “hidden” source of resentment and the unconscious catalyst for other arguments that are not really about what you are arguing about at all but the smoking. The point i am trying to make is that when something bothers you that much , enough to write to Jeff (much as we enjoy writing to you Jeff), then it can only be buried or justified for so long before it rears it;s ugly head thru some crevice or crack or another and finds its way out. And it will find its way. I am so sorry to sound all negative but thats one way of looking at it. The other is more positive and that you can learn to live with it and the smell and the breath and the effects of second hand smoke on your lungs and skin and hair. You could do that too. I think you know your decision and you know its the right one. I have simplified this very much and have not accounted for things like love, tolerance, the way that person makes us feel when we are with them and how hard it is to find that and sometimes all that is enough. how about some rules..smoking only outside, not in the car/ bed, brush after etc….I hope that any of that helps. Its finally down to to you.