How For Real is the Future Talk?
A reader named Betsy wants to understand what a man’s talking about when he says all that stuff about “not believing that people are meant to be with one person…etc.” Always a dealbreaker? Nope, not always (says the guy who used to say that stuff and is now married.)
But it sometimes sure is. Let’s see what’s going on with Betsy’s man.
So what’s your take on “future talk” and how real it usually is? As in, my guy and I are inching toward the marriage talk, have been doing the “when we do this” about something in the future for awhile, etc., etc. Fine with all that – pace is fine, all is fine. However, we’re both realists when it comes to romance and he often talks about how he’s not sure people are meant to be with one person forever, or if people are ever happy spending their lives with one person, blah, blah…he talks a decent amount about marriage as something that often doesn’t work out.
Hard to fault his statistical analysis on that one, but it may or may not be a sort of HINT-HINT sort of thing. We’ll need a little more info for that.
And he’s done this since before we started dating, so I don’t get the sense it’s direct toward anyone in particular.
Ok, that’s a better sign there. If that talk just started right about the time when you brought up marriage, it might be a little more worrying.
In fact he does it a lot less now (probably partially because he’s happier and partially because he knows it’s not really that cool to talk about how relationships fail with your girlfriend).
Smart lad.
And in a lot of respects, I agree with him – relationships take work – they are amazing when they’re good, but they can be bad – and marriage and the idea of spending your life with one person is scary. So what’s the problem? Well even though I see where he’s coming from, I still BELIEVE in all that stuff. As in, I’m not blind and if things don’t work out, they don’t work out – but ideally, I would like to be able to spend my life with one person and I believe with the right person and the right relationship it can be a happy wonderful thing. So I guess my question is, am I setting myself up here? Is this one of those “I warned you before that I didn’t believe this was possible so now I’m going to make sure it’s not and then tell you you should’ve seen it coming” times? The only way to know, I realize, is to ask him. But what’s your take – is the theoretical relationship/life talk that goes on in that “this is what I think of the world” conversation at all connected to the “what I want with YOU” thoughts?
Dear Betsy,
Well, as you so rightly mention, you’re not really going to know until you ask him directly. This kind of talk isn’t always an iron clad sign of any one thing.
I mean, it could be:
- He’s hinting that he’s not interested in settling down so he can let himself off the hook.
- He’s trying as best he can to give voice to his fears about what marriage means, and it’s coming off like maybe he doesn’t want to marry you.
- He’s just a really awkward conversationalist, and this is the kind of thing he likes to talk about.
Ok, probably not that last one.
But it really could be the second one. As I often say, men aren’t always total ninjas when it comes to…well, anything, but I was going to say “talking about feelings.”
But boy, we sure feel ‘em. So if he’s freaked out at the possibility of “forever,” can’t imagine how one can make that kind of a decision…then maybe he says the best approximation that he can come up with.
Here’s where YOU come in.
DEFUSE
The biggest gift that you can give a man when you’re having The Talk is to let him know that YOU’RE NOT SURE EITHER.
You’ve said it. You’re not stupid — you know that marriages fail, relationships don’t work out, people get hurt, bad things happen, etc., right?
BUT, that doesn’t mean that you’re not interested in trying.
That’s where you’re at, right? Well, if you can make sure you let him know, and in no uncertain terms, that this stuff is scary and uncertain for you as well, it’s going to go a lot better.
US vs. YOU AND ME
What you do when you admit that stuff is to let him know — We’re US here. It’s not ME (who is correct) and YOU (who believes in the wrong thing and I’m trying to talk you into it.)
Bad, bad, bad. In fact, that might be where you start:
“Look, the last thing in the world I’d want to do would be to try to talk you into changing your mind on marriage.”
And really, that IS the last thing you’d want to do. Well…maybe not the very last one. I mean, I’m sure “going out to the woods and finding a raccoon, bringing it home, and tossing it at him” would probably come in a little lower on the list. But you see my point.
COME TOGE-THA! RIGHT NOW-OW-OW!
That’s the key, Betsy. You want a meeting of the minds. An OPEN one. You don’t want a session where you hear each of his concerns so that you can REFUTE them. Don’t make him defend his position. Ask him to explain it, talk MORE about your side of it, really get into it. Then and only then, see if there isn’t a way you two can meet in the middle.
And if there isn’t, well, it ain’t going to be because you asked him to help you understand what he believes.
Good luck, Betsy. In answer to your basic question, I can’t tell you whether or not he’s being for real, or trying to set up an exit strategy. But I can tell you that your best bet is to find out more, open the dialogue, and see where it goes.
What’s your experience with this kind of “future talk” ladies?
Posted: June 8th, 2009 under Reader Requests.
Comments
Comment from X
Time June 9, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Selena,
I agree with you that it could be way ahead, as Betsy may not be sure if she wants to marry ‘him’.
However, I personally think, any girl/guy could ask if the other ever intends to get married ( may be not with them ) very early in first few dates !
I dont see why this question could be asked only after an year or two,( wasting time with the wrong person) ‘coz it’s such an impersonal question ! Do you believe in marriage ? How personal is that ? It’s not asking about marriage with ‘you’ right …If he does, he’d say … yes with the right woman, I do ! Else he’d say nah, that’s a piece of paper I dont care for !
I dont see any harm in this question, and if the guy doesnt ever believe in marriage, and you do … you know it way ahead and … it becomes easy to make decisions based on that !
It’s not fun to drag a guy who doesnt ever want to get married, ‘nailing’ him down to do so,( if he’s totally against marriage in the first place) just ‘coz you’re attached to him for over an year or so ! Instead think of all the time that could be saved, if you know this way ahead !
I’d personally refrain myself from all that work of talking someone into it, ‘coz I believe if two people want to get married, they should because it’s their decision that they want to stay together for life, not one ‘convincing’ other to do so.
And I surely think, it’s time Betsy ask that question as suggested by Jeff, so she knows if they’re on the same page or not ! ( ie same page about marriage and not about each other ) !
Comment from Selena
Time June 9, 2009 at 1:26 pm
X,
You can surely ask someone how they feel about marriage within the first few dates, but their answer is unlikely to be significant as it pertains to future marriage with YOU. For one thing, they may think you pushy – they are just getting to know you after all – and here you are asking a “supposedly” (?) theoretical question on how they feel about marriage? For another, they could tell you they are all for it. But just not with you as it turns out weeks/months down the road if they find themselves incompatibile with you. So what good does such information do you early on?
I do agree with you that it’s important to find out if you are on the same page or not, but I don’t think you can predict such a thing UNTIL you start to become serious with each other. Same reason: someone may claim to want to be married one day, but you may not be that person. Opposite could happen: someone may claim not to believe in marriage, but change their mind if they fall in love with YOU.
I don’t think it’s necessary to wait a year or more to have this discussion, but if you have become serious, and you are a woman who wants to be married within x number of years, then it is in your best interest to have such a discussion WHEN you become serious. Simply has been my experience such discussions tend to take place somewhere between 6-12 mos. together.
Betsy here, seems to want to be able to determine her bf’s inner-most thoughts on the subject before ever talking to him about it, lol. I suspect she isn’t ready yet to lay her own cards on the table. If she were, this wouldn’t be an issue.
Really, the timing of the possible marriage talk is dependent on how close the two people have become, rather than any specified amount of time passed.
Comment from X
Time June 9, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Selena,
I totally get what you’re saying !
However, in my experience, I found out that people can be more honest in initial dates ( as opposed to a 3 month or 6 mo term ) because, after some elapse, thats when the questions might seem loaded , if they might lose us, based on their answers !
The same thing could happen after an yr, if she decided to get serious and asks his views on marriage ( needn’t be with her ), he could still tell her , yes some day ( when he doesnt want to get married to “anyone” in the first place, as he’ll lose his current gf ).
If this discussion happens in first few dates, ( obviously when there are no red flags so far from the girl’s side, and there’s no attachment of any sort there, so people are free to expreses their views without fear, also he doesnt know the girls take on marriage) … just a casual line like : We had a discussion at work, some married people were cribbing about why they got married blah blah … and some said they’re happy … what’re your views on marriage in general ? You know, you’re not kidding him to marry you in first few dates ( even he wouldn’t suspect such a thing so early on ), so he could easily be honest then !
If he’s not honest then, where there’s no attachment involved … even to tell about his views on marriage ( not with anyone in particular) I wonder if he could ever be honest, even after an yr or two ! 
Well, I totally get your view on this too .. may be, this could be an interesting Q to direct to our genius Jeff Mac, as to what’s the best way !
Comment from LK
Time June 9, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Monkey wrench…don’t some couples just know somehow? Or if there is hesitation it best be dealt with at some point whether beginning, middle or, maybe, end?
I never asked my ex about his feelings about marriage, and wasn’t sure what his intentions were. I was a second marriage. Boy, was that a mistake (barring for my daughter). But I always had my own hesitations (lots of them) and did it anyway because of my own beliefs about what marriage is “supposed” to be.
But am dating someone now that it just feels right. I haven’t asked, he hasn’t offered…I just know it’s going to happen sometime. For the record, we are apprx 4-5 months into the “relationship” but have known each other for 2 decades.
I’m not sure…..maybe we girls need to ask guys to marry us sometimes?
Comment from mmagnolia
Time June 10, 2009 at 10:38 pm
All Dears!
It’s not a Goodie when a man thinks a woman is “pushy” because a woman asks a non-specific question on a-n-y topic! How could that reaction = healthy, 4Him, 4Her, especially 4The IT!
On another hand, guyFriend of 30years trembles at the thought a woman could! ask such a generic question. He’s got good reason, He says, of course!
Agreement here w/Mme. x, on initiating w/honesty versus *wait+see*. Tiptoeing seems counterproductive, Ms. Selena!
True That: T’is possible 2feel “right”; Soooo….Armfuls o’Blossoms, Ms. LK!
Comment from SentWest
Time June 16, 2009 at 8:13 am
I’ve dated the “I can’t promise anything,” “maybe yes, maybe no,” “not meant to be with one person,” relationship type before. Honestly for me, even if they’re doing it with the best possible intentions, I find it disrespectful and a waste of my time.
But that’s how I am: I know what I want, I want to know what they want, so if we don’t want the same thing we can cut bait and move on already rather than drag things out. Having been married once I can say that at least in my experience it’s much less painful to let someone go who can’t or doesn’t want to commit than dance around with them hoping they’ll magically come around to your unstated views.
Comment from mmagnolia
Time June 16, 2009 at 10:48 pm
Dear SentWest,
Agreeing 99.99.99%!
…When with “best possible intentions” [altho' unsure how2know thatOne!], Any of US = honest w/the *downside* stuff, hard2recognize “waste”. Shortest distance = Least Curving!
As sending ‘em west-R-east, nice2skip The HeaveHo…make it a Bon Voyage! Goodness, 4what goes/comes ’round!
Comment from abc
Time June 21, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Great advice Jeff !
Comment from mmagnolia
Time June 21, 2009 at 9:45 pm
All Dears,
….Best *hinge* of “dialogue” is Honesty!
SmoothSailing, there 1st! …
Comment from Selena
Time June 9, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Betsy, how long have you been dating? I think the answer matters because if it’s been 6mos. or less I think you are waaay over-analyzing the situation and it’s future potential.
If you’ve been dating more than 6 mos., closer to a year I think it’s completely natural for the talk about “possibly getting married at some point in the future” to come up. But still, all the exhausting analysis of what he may or may not be thinking before you even talk about it is pointless. Do you want to marry him? Not sure? Then leave it alone.
If you reach a point where you know you want to be married – in a year, or two, or so, THEN you need to nail him down as to whether he ever intends to get married or not. That is, if you don’t want to be one of those women who goes with a guy for years, getting ever more frustrated because he won’t marry her. If one of you really wants to be married and the other doesn’t it’s decision making time. Doesn’t sound like you are there quite yet.