manslations

Comment from SentWest
Time June 24, 2009 at 9:26 am

Jeff – I think your advice is almost right on here, save for one thing…

I was married to one of these creatures for three years, together for five. He’d be a nice, good, loving guy about 30% of the time, during the rest some infinitesimal thing that had nothing to do with me would set him off, and I’d be on the receiving end of silent treatment, marathon head-biting-off, occasional wall-punching, and total lack of anger management for days. The real fun part was the rounds of “now I’m angry because you’re asking me why I’m angry,” conversations. Ah, those were the days…

Anyway, I agree that you should ask Dr. Jeckyl what’s going on when he hasn’t taken the potion, but it’s quite likely that Mr. Hyde will not remember a darn thing that the good Doctor has promised you. (Or does, and can’t/won’t do it, and feels guilty and upset for hurting you, and now it’s your fault for reminding him he’s not Jeckyl all the time. Take cover.)

The proof will be in the behavior. If he’s able to tone it down, you’ve got hope. If it remains the same, or gets worse, or they flat refuse to (like in my case) acknowledge Hyde exists or do something about him, you’ve got some serious problems.

Comment from SentWest
Time June 24, 2009 at 9:57 am

Briefly in addition: Based on the DSM IV criteria, I believe the vast majority of guys like this are *not* bipolar or even on the spectrum, they simply lack skills in identifying, addressing and handling emotions. The question is are they mature and patient enough to learn new behaviors that will make their interpersonal relationships more rewarding? Some are, some never will get around to it.

Sometimes even bringing up the diagnostic issues gives them an excuse, I try to avoid it.

(I’ve got a really expensive yet useless piece of paper hanging on my wall sez I’m qualified to parrot the DSM IV at least, so I kinda sorta maybe can provide some useful info.)

Comment from Selena
Time June 24, 2009 at 9:58 am

“…and then in the light of the full moon, he becomes a weredouche.”

Laughed so hard I had to hold my stomach at that one!

I was involved with a guy like this for a time and it wasn’t pleasant. In his case, it had a lot to do with excessive alcohol comsumption to become a full-out weredouche. I now believe even when he wasn’t intoxicated Mr. Hyde was lurking ready for any excuse to emerge and wreak havok upon the day and my person. I do believe there were mental issues, but more to anger management and impulse control rather than bi-polar. And it only became worse as time went on.

Aleta, go ahead and have “a talk” with him on one of his good days if you want to, but I think you need to be prepared to shut this relationship down fast. Guys like this tend to move from being pain-in-the-ass jerks to downright abusive given enough time.

Knowing what I know now, my advice to you is to get out now before this weredouche loses control completely and does something worse than subject you to a temper tantrum.

Comment from LK
Time June 24, 2009 at 5:57 pm

OMG – the new words I learn here….”weredouche” and “assholery”. Wow – I can’t wait to use both in casual conversations everywhere in Corporate America!

To the point, Aleta…check out the definition of “Passive/Agressive Personality Disorder”. Just Google it. See if some of the symptomology fits your guy. It might be plain old Anger Management stuff…certainly a possibility. But check out PAPD and see if some of that “weredouche assholery” doesn’t hit home.

After you are done playing Dr. Freud with Dr. Jekyl, run like the wind. Preferably on a good day.

Much Luck…

Comment from Aleta
Time June 25, 2009 at 1:07 pm

“…He’d be a nice, good, loving guy about 30% of the time, during the rest some infinitesimal thing that had nothing to do with me would set him off, and I’d be on the receiving end of silent treatment, marathon head-biting-off, occasional wall-punching, and total lack of anger management for days. The real fun part was the rounds of “now I’m angry because you’re asking me why I’m angry,” conversations. Ah, those were the days…”

Ewwwww!!!! This is scaaaary…there ARE others out there….just curious if your experience also included the nasty-to-you-but-absolute-sweetness-to-everyone-else when he was in the Hyde phase…

The pearl analogy is priceless—tend to believe that for some of these men (like my guy), that there is something to this. When the oyster is in open sweetness mode, you get glimpses of an enormous reserve of beautiful pearls in there, but, then the shell snaps shut and all you have is a hard, unforgiving and pretty unappealing crust.

Sigh…it appears that I need to wait for one of those sunny days to come around again and see if I can broach the subject without having my head or heart quashed as the shell slams shut. I suspected as much, but, had some kind of fantasy that someone would point me to an elixir that I could sneak into his morning coffee.

Good thoughts to all,
Aleta

Comment from SentWest
Time June 26, 2009 at 8:59 am

Aleta ~
“just curious if your experience also included the nasty-to-you-but-absolute-sweetness-to-everyone-else when he was in the Hyde phase…”

Yep. Got that one too. Always irked the heck out of me because he’d consistently claim that he couldn’t not act upset or mad when he was mad, and I was being outrageous in expecting him to “hide” how he was feeling…

…then he’d turn around and be sweetness and light to everyone else, showing me that he could in fact control it, just consciously or unconsciously chose not to with me.

*Shrug* One of the many reasons “Always Being Nice to Waitstaff” is one of my top criteria in men these days.

My final conclusion on this guy was that there were indeed pearls in there, but it wasn’t fair for either of us for me to hassle him to effectively be a different person 70% of the time to get to them.

Comment from Selena
Time June 26, 2009 at 9:00 am

“I suspected as much, but, had some kind of fantasy that someone would point me to an elixir that I could sneak into his morning coffee. ”

You could try Xanax, but it wears off after a few hours. lol.

Comment from LK
Time June 26, 2009 at 11:32 am

Not to press the issue, Aleta…but…one of the symptoms of PAPD IS being sweet and wonderful then being a total jerk. And the two can occur simultaneously. Sadly, PAPD was taken out of the DSM as a “disorder” because by nature of the disorder (lack of respect for authority of any kind) it’s nearly untreatable. So, in the infinite wisdom of therapists everywhere, if we can’t treat it it must not be a disorder and therefore we will not address it anymore.

Essentially, these people really ARE untreatable. They listen to only their own reason which can be A one day and B the next, as the situation fits. They are never wrong and will make you feel like crap even if you are 100% right. They also have the ability to make you think YOU’RE wrong and have an uncanny ability to cause you to question your own sanity when it’s their’s that needs questioning.

If this is what you are dealing with, guaranteed it will get worse. The “good” days will become for infrequent. The sweetness is there to suck you into their worlds…

Gah! This part really bothered me…

“Ewwwww!!!! This is scaaaary…there ARE others out there….just curious if your experience also included the nasty-to-you-but-absolute-sweetness-to-everyone-else when he was in the Hyde phase…”

This is a form of mental abuse. No one needs it. Get this guy out of your head before you can’t or take years of therapy to do so….

Good luck, Aleta. !

Comment from AnneZ
Time June 26, 2009 at 12:16 pm

“Sadly, PAPD was taken out of the DSM as a “disorder” because by nature of the disorder (lack of respect for authority of any kind) it’s nearly untreatable. So, in the infinite wisdom of therapists everywhere, if we can’t treat it it must not be a disorder and therefore we will not address it anymore.”

Bizarre. Any number of diseases are de facto untreatable yet you still find them in the Merck Manual. Wingy dingy, that logic.

Comment from LK
Time June 27, 2009 at 9:44 am

Ain’t it the truth? I sometimes wonder how many replacement “disorders” it takes to make up doozies like this?

It’s still in the Merck cause it used to be an actual billable diagnosis and people still use the term (erm, cause it still exists).

Comment from over in France
Time July 20, 2009 at 11:21 am

Aleta – he’s:

a closet alcoholic
or
just hates women but likes to get laid
or
has a hormone problem
or
got hurt by a woman before you and is, mentally, dealing with her half the time
or
all of the above.
It’s not your job to figure him out.
Run. xx

Comment from mmagnolia
Time July 21, 2009 at 2:12 pm

Dear Aleta,
Unbeknowing whether your relationship is a passingFancy or a heartThrob, t’is hard2say…stayRsit!
Raising issue on “sunny day” = perfect!

Dear SentWest,
Yep… niceness 2waitstaff is a sureSignal of what’s really happening inside the breast o’man toward woman [set aside how he treats his Mom]!

Dear over in France,
U list some Great possibilites!
True confession = many of us could acknowledge sins due 2hormones and 2emotions displaced on innocent [ignorant, if not innocent!] bystanders.
BTW…on the waitstaff side, have noticed females portray women-haters, upclose!

Lastly: Ms. Aleta,
Presuming Your commitment of sorts, any hint of alcoholism on His part should cautionU, 4some professional intervention 4Him….even if as a Friend, at a distance!
All ways, Blessings 4SteadySteering!

Comment from Melissa
Time August 8, 2009 at 9:45 am

Aleta,

I find it very sad that women have become so conditioned to make excuses for guys who behave like “weredouches” (good one, Jeff, LOL!) (Another variation might be “weirdouche”?) I see this all the time….women will literally grasp at straws in an attempt to explain away inappropriate behavior. This guy has anger issues, clearly, that were set in place way before you came along, and will remain there way after you are done with him, I suspect. The key word is “his” issue. You are committing NO crime against humanity by leaving him just as you found him. And, yes, I would leave…FAST! You were not put on this earth to police other people’s poor behavior.

Don’t YOU believe you deserve better??

Good luck to you.
Melissa

Comment from mmagnolia
Time August 8, 2009 at 1:12 pm

Dear Ms. Melissa,
Your calm words are instructive, dearly!

But: Must differ on Your point of “NO crime against humanity by leaving him just as you found him”!
Such a “NO” covers much2much, 4reality.

Lettuce say that R’ship *followup* is like Runoff, which lives in many forms (e.g., any post-behavior wAnotherPartner).
Yes, being careful of Our Drama input is appropriate and, plenty-wise!

Quandary on Ms. Aleta’s quandary = NOT knowing IF there’s depth [so2say] of Him2Her, and Her2Him. Casual—is it?
But That ignorance canB ignored, because there’s evidence that unwisely-reared children nonetheless grow up 2BOur co-workers, neighbors, spouses, storeclerks!
How can any of us NOT have a frog in that race…. of humanity!

Self-survival, calling spade–spade, other fish2fry can require moving on. My point is that onward moves don’t require indifference–which is the REAL opposite of Love [of...whatever subject].

At the end o’day, Dears Aleta/Melissa, looking in Our mirrors should = Delight. Trying on another’s beret can help.

Blessed Delights4evr!
….P.S. Dear Professor, Hurry Sunup!

Comment from Melissa
Time August 8, 2009 at 2:22 pm

Mmagnolia Darlin’,

I wasn’t inferring that our lady Aleta should be callous to the young man (regardless of the fact that he has, indeed, exhibited this misbehavior….and worse…to her.)

I am emphatically stating that she shouldn’t feel any guilt for moving onto greener and much healthier pastures.

I’ve seen TOO many women who felt it was their responsibility to “fix” a guy. They’ll put up with much abuse (physical and emotional) and remain cos they truly feel in their heart of hearts that if “they can only hang in long enough”, they will reap the rewards of his undying gratitude…and love…for her devotion.

The occasional “sweetness” the guy displays is the silver lining that she clings to in order to justify her continued presence in the relationship.

I do believe that we should look out and care for eachother, Mmagnolia. However, in many cases, the caring should be from a distance. We can wish people like that the very best, pray for them, make recommendations (if applicable and you feel they will be welcomed), and in some instances, the door can be left open for them to come back later IF s/he changes the harmful attitude and behaviors. (I wouldn’t hold my breath for that to happen, however, and would let them go. Let him convince you otherwise.)

A man who treasures a woman sees to it that his (inappropriate) outbursts are kept to a minimum. And if he slips (gosh, we all do that from time to time, huh), he will apologize and do his best to make it up to her. This is not theory, ladies…I’ve been married to WONDERFUL man for 21 years and this is how he treats me. We talk all the time about relationships, and he tells it out how it is. (How we women just KNOW it is, but hope against hope it ain’t so.)

Compassion is the glue that holds humanity in its arms, for sure, Mmagnolia. There are times, however, that call for ruthless compassion. Or Tough Love would be another term.

Hope this clears up any misunderstanding?

All my best,
Melissa

Comment from Melissa
Time August 8, 2009 at 2:24 pm

I said, “(I wouldn’t hold my breath for that to happen, however, and would let them go. Let him convince you otherwise.)”

I meant “Upon his return, let his consistent behavior convince you.”

Comment from Selena
Time August 9, 2009 at 7:24 am

Melissa –
“I see this all the time….women will literally grasp at straws in an attempt to explain away inappropriate behavior”.

Yep.

And it never does any good. Anyone who is allowed to get away with the poor behavior with little in the way of consequences will continue to do it. After all, what incentive do they have to change it? None if they have others making excuses for them.

Compassion? Sure. You can have plenty of compassion for someone. When you are no longer subject to their destructive mechanisms and have placed yourself far removed from their sphere.

Comment from Melissa
Time August 9, 2009 at 9:45 am

And the irony here, Selena, is that the men who are guilty of this misbehavior only ending up resenting the women who allow them to get away with it. No one respects themselves or the other when they’ve been allowed to sink to the lowest common denomonator (sp?) in the relationship. Again, it backfires for the women who believe that they are “proving their worthiness” to the guy by putting up with poor treatment. Men respect (and secretly LOVE) when their women call them out on inappropriate behavior and expect them to be at their best. Those are the women that get brought home to Mom. I’ll not ever forget a comment a male friend made to me, regarding his wife…he told me…with a proud grin, no less…that when he gets out of line, she (attitudinally, not literally) she kicks his ass!

I may get some flack for this, I’m sure, but I’ve found that in most cases it’s the women who set the moral tone of the relationship…deep down, men expect this from us. When we fail to bring this to the table…especially when they feel affection in the beginning .it disappoints them, and they feel inexplicably let down. However, most of them will put up with a doormat until someone more exciting comes along. The woman who was left is really confused, thinking that she did everything she possibly could, what went wrong?

That’s my .02, anyway.

Melissa

Comment from mmagnolia
Time August 9, 2009 at 8:22 pm

Dear All-Dears!

MerciBouquets, Mss. Melissa/Selena– 4topnotes [hope Ms. Aleta is reading]!

Yep…we can’t go wrong w/truth in love! Mrs. Melissa, Happy 2nd set of 21years!

No flack, Dear Melissa–from This Girl! However: Any Man [Woman!] who consistently looks outside *Self* for “moral tone” can’t help but be a Problematic Prize, in the longterm!
That “ruthless compassion” sorta sounds like a *deafening silence*, but, it makes more food4thought in my bowl!

Sure…All of us from time2time, need hushing on inapt conduct, but handholds on civility/ethics/morality seem counterproductive. A Man [Woman!] can grow2resent dormat behaviors. Similarly…moral tone setting [Tonesetter may feel *superior*, initially...even 4decades] can bloom2B a source of resentment, on both sides of pillow!
Thereby: Who wins; What’s won??

Overall: Goes2show why Honesty [foremost2self] is best policy & protocol.

Happy Honesty 4evr, 2All of Us & Others!

Comment from Melissa
Time August 10, 2009 at 6:57 pm

Hi Mmagnolia,

You said, “No flack, Dear Melissa–from This Girl! However: Any Man [Woman!] who consistently looks outside *Self* for “moral tone” can’t help but be a Problematic Prize, in the longterm!”

I was referring to women who have the self regard to expect respectful and fair treatment from others. (Men also deserve this.) I didn’t mean moral tone as in “holier than thou”, which gets obnoxious really fast….self respectors will appreciate and give back to those who treat them well and eliminate those who don’t, thus “setting the tone”.

Hope this helps?

All my best,
Melissa

Comment from mmagnolia
Time August 10, 2009 at 8:02 pm

Dearest Mrs. Mel….
The sound Uhear is mmoi…. scattering petals over daFlack, so YourStep is Light!

T’is very helpful! But…if All’s true as Usay, *men* as species can’t Btrusted w/tone setting which is rightlyGood+sweetlyFair!
Not flackint, only presuming [altho' promised Self not 2dabble in presumes].

Ever…Best of SweetBests 2U2+Your One!

Comment from Melissa
Time August 10, 2009 at 9:50 pm

Mmagnolia, my dear,

You said, “T’is very helpful! But…if All’s true as Usay, *men* as species can’t Btrusted w/tone setting which is rightlyGood+sweetlyFair!
Not flackint, only presuming [altho' promised Self not 2dabble in presumes].”

I confess I’m alittle confused, here. How did you come up what you presume to be my attitude towards men in general?

Jeff very kindly volunteers his time to assist women who are dealing with men who are behaving problematically in one way or another. My responses are geared to those men.

Certainly not to my husband….or to my Dear Dad, who treats my Mother like a Queen…or my brother who overgives in relationships (I keep telling him to wait and see if his generosity is merited. But what could I possibly know about females? I’m only big sis…), or to either Uncle, who adore their wives, my Aunts…or to (most of) my past boyfriends….or to male friends who became very dear to me over time. I could
go on, I don’t wish to be redundant.

I know I’m very direct in my speaking patterns; I do NOT believe in sugarcoating, you probably have noticed by now

I don’t think we’ll ever be able to understand men 100%, no they us 100%. That is alot of the fun….viva la difference!

Let’s respect those differences, and feel free to offer up clarity, ideas, and examples of what has worked for us in relationships.

While I consider myself fortunate cos I don’t have any horror stories, I do wish that I had a resource like this while I was in my early 20’s. I would have wasted less time with people who weren’t suitable for one reason or another, if I had the benefit of wise women who cared enough to tell it like it is. What I got instead from my well-meaning friends was smoke blown my way….cos they didn’t want to hurt my feelings.

I guess I prefer to rip the band-aid off in one quick move, rather than suffer lots of small “pinches” over a period of time, wondering when it’s all going to be over…

Well, that’s 2 more cents from me.

All my best,
Melissa

Comment from mmagnolia
Time August 11, 2009 at 7:48 pm

DearOhDear Mel,
Bartender…Petals 4Everyone, on Me!

Firstly: PraiseHeaven 4Your miracle of not having “any horror stories”–Alleluia!

Now, 4clarity: Presumption was My presuming 4Myself, NOT projecting on2U!
Simple: My path of abiding, even sorta agreeing with, YourPerspective was the path of MyPresuming that men “can’t Btrusted w/tone setting…”! [My cows are still down yonder on that.] Yep…coulda crammed a *maybe* in, thereabouts! Presuming is, usually, a means2progress, NOT quite a conclusion, Itself!

Lastly, Dear Melissa: Being a Cheerleader of Directness is everGood! Here’s 2presuming…..Peace 4All!

Comment from LK
Time August 12, 2009 at 4:16 am

I think the bottom line here is something called “boundaries”. Either we create them for ourselves and stick to them or we don’t. Sadly, for some (male and female) if you create a boundary and it gets crossed the boundary gets a ding in it. But once one boundary is crossed, others soon take a hit too.

If this guy truly has issues (call said issues what you will – any number of personality disorders are fitting – PAPD, anger-management probs, bipolar-ness, alcoholism – you pick) boundaries will always be crossed as it’s part of the nature of these disorders to be unable to recognize and/or respect said boundaries.

Therefore…only we can decide if someone crossing our lines is worth hanging on to or not.

But any woman (or man – it happens to them too) who feels like she (he) can repair the relationship via overkindness by allowing her (or his) boundaries to be crossed repeatedly probably deserves better.

This is usually referred to as “respect”.

Comment from L in SF
Time August 14, 2009 at 1:55 am

Hi, Aleta:
I’ve experienced this sort of thing. After couples therapy (which never worked, because he’d blow up mid-session and storm out), our therapist told me he’s either got Borderline Personality Disorder or he’s Bi-polar. Regardless, it resulted in a verbally abusive relationship — a web in which you DON’T want to find yourself a few years down the line after trying to resurrect that “kind” 30% of his personality.

Run now, because you’ll just need to run later… and it’ll take a lot longer for you to recognize that need after you’ve been swept into the cycle of emotional/verbal abuse. Keep in mind that the scars from verbal abuse are severe, but they’re psychological — so it’s really hard for your trusted network of friends and relatives to recognize when you’re in trouble because there are no physical bruises to clue them in. It’ll be up to you to see the light besides having the wool pulled tightly over your eyes once you’ve been drawn into that cycle of abuse.

Sorry for the grim advice, but I so wish that someone had shared this insight with me when I was in your shoes.

Good luck and stay strong!