How Long to Wait for It?
A reader who’s Feeling Frisky wants to understand how long you have to wait on the sex before you can be reasonably sure a guy isn’t only in it for the sex. Oh sure, a nice simple one for Friday. Sheesh.
You’ve addressed the when can we have sex question in your column(whenever you want) but one thing you mentioned is that by waiting the man’s intentions may be revealed and you can weed out players. I expect there isn’t a one-size-fits-all answer, but can you ballpark it for me — how much time is long enough to separate the ones who only want to get into your panties from the ones who aren’t so likely to bolt post-nookie? (I saw one book say 90 days — not sure I can hold out that long.)
Sign me — Feeling Frisky
Dear FeeFri,
Well, as you referenced in your very first sentence, I have officially given women the green light to have sex with men anytime they feel like it. You can be very, very sure that having sex with a man will NOT actually change how he feels about you. As in, if he bails after, he was going to bail before. The sex didn’t change anything. What changed was that he got what he was after…and then he left. Simple, right?
And yes, if you hold off on sex, you might learn about a man’s feelings for you. Remember, if a guy is a player, he’s looking to keep your NON-sex time to an absolute minimum.
THINNING THE HERD
When you’re thinking players, think predator and prey. A predator goes after the weaker members of the herd. A predator doesn’t go after the one that looks like it will be a giant pain in the ass to deal with. Why? Because a predator isn’t about getting cute, it’s about WINNING.
Same thing with players. They’re about getting you. And if they believe that they’re going to have to put in too many non-sex hours, well, they’ll lose interest.
This is, by the way, the reason I don’t advocate women getting men to “chase” them. The kind of guy you’ll get to chase you is the kind of guy who thinks of you as a wounded gazelle he’d like to sink his claws into. If you know what I mean.
WARNING: THIS ISN’T JUST ABOUT PLAYERS
But see, that’s just about the guys who have little intention of sticking around. But there are plenty of guys — and I’ve been one of them — who just don’t know how interested they are (or aren’t) until after the sex. The sex doesn’t change how we feel. It just takes the whole ‘goal’ part off the table, revealing to us what’s left.
Aaaaaand, poof.
Lots of guys truly don’t even KNOW that they don’t want a relationship with you until after sex. It’s like sharks. Most shark attacks happen because the shark took a bite out of the swimmer to SEE if they wanted to eat it. They literally didn’t know until after taking a big ol’ chomp.
Now, usually this is very, very early in the dating process, of course. And it’s usually pretty hot up to this point. But how long?
SO THEN…90 DAYS?
Good lord, no. I mean…I can’t imagine a situation in which that’s necessary. Seriously. The players? You can probably weed out a player with a handful non-sex dates. You’ll see it on them. It’s one thing to be anxious about getting to the sex. It’s quite another to be impatiently enduring all the blah-blah-blah until you finally get what you’re after.
But it’s the other guys, though. There’s no great way to weed them out because they don’t even know they’re not serious themselves.
IT’S NOT THE YEARS, IT’S THE MILEAGE
Honestly, it’s not about how long you wait. It’s about how much of his focus is ONLY on getting you into bed. If all that you know about a guy is that he really, REALLY wants to get into your pants, I mean, you really don’t know anything, do you? I’d say that once you’re satisfied that:
- …you want to do sex unto him, and
- …he clearly enjoys spending non-sex time with you as an event in and of itself
…you’re probably ok. Foolproof? No. But when has love ever been foolproof?
What’s your gauge, ladies? How long do you wait? Ten minutes? Ten years? Hello?
Posted: June 26th, 2009 under Reader Requests.
Comments
Comment from Valencia
Time June 28, 2009 at 3:23 pm
This is my dilemma too. And inevitably, when it happens to soon – I regret it. (ok, I always regret it) But that’s me.
I agree with Selena…waiting 90 days won’t help you avoid rejection (or bolting)…but waiting quite a while may help you decide…if you want to bolt …
It will also help you figure out if he is the kind who will disappear post-sex.
And if you don’t care about him bolting…then by all means…go for it asap.
Comment from chai
Time June 29, 2009 at 12:15 am
wow, very timely. i am wondering the exact theme of this.
ive been hanging out with a guy i met like a month ago and we’ve hung out 4 times. then he made a move on me inviting me over his place.
we never talked about what we’re looking for. i don’t even know what kind of things i want with him yet, at this point.
we just enjoy each other’s company over drinks and dinner.
i was wondering if it’s safe to assume he’s only in it for the sex? or what the hell?
Comment from Seductress
Time July 1, 2009 at 3:27 pm
“The sex doesn’t change how we feel. It just takes the whole ‘goal’ part off the table, revealing to us what’s left.”
This sounds dangerously close to saying it’s actually to a woman’s advantage to get the sex part out of the way because until a man does that, he doesn’t really know how he feels. (the shark example)
So play that out:
Once the “goal” part is removed, revelaing “what is left” as Jeff puts it, if he’s only been on 4-5 dates with this woman, he hardly knows her, so therefore, it’s obvious that NOTHING is left. Not only is he still at the beginning of even figuring out if he likes her, now there is no “goal” to keep him coming forward.
And don’t try to tell me that it is not in the back of a man’s mind that if she had sex with HIM after 3-5 dates, she probably does it with everyone. That DOES change the way most men think whether they want to admit it or not and very well could lessen the attraction he had at first.
Most don’t admit it because they know women would rip their faces off due to the double standard. But in conversations with men for my blog, many have admitted it to me.
Sorry, I couldn’t disagree with Jeff more about sex having nothing to do with a man’s feelings for a woman or whether he will bolt or not. That may be true for some men I doubt the majority.
If a woman wants to have sex with virtual strangers (a man she’s been on 5 dates with) have fun, but don’t think it will have NO bearing on the man. It does. More often than not, his saticfaction of reaching his goal DOES take some of the interest away–because the goal has been taken away.
I say, if you want a relationship, it’s really in your best interest to let him develop feelings for you BEFORE you have sex.
Because seriously, men can separate sex and emotion and very few women can. Why set ourselves up for hurt sleeping with someone we haven’t established a committed relationship with?
How long does that take? It depends on the amount of time you spend and what you talk about and how he treats you and many things…..I think if a woman isn’t sure if a man likes her for HER and not just to get sex, that is a clear indication that it’s too soon.
Comment from mmagnolia
Time July 2, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Dear Seductress!
…Also, Trueness Here.
However, testosterone is not exclusive 2men. Perhaps “men can separate sex and emotion and very few women can” is due to *choice*, not a gender-gotta! Am presuming Your reference is2 sex w/another person versus w/self!
Am wondering whether data on older, post-menopausal females would show equality w/males-of-any-age on *ability + choice* to separate sex and emotions. IF true, The Good of That still = not palpable!
Dear Feeling Frisky!
Best Blessings making Merriments!
Comment from Feeling frisky
Time July 10, 2009 at 10:15 am
First, many thanks to Jeff for answering my question. And I hope the move is going smoothly! Thanks too for all the comments from other readers.
My intent wasn’t to suggest that I wanted a fool-proof way to avoid rejection (as lovely as that would be!). I know that rejection is a part of dating, and, of course, there’s no magic time frame that once you cross that point, you’re home-free (learned that one from a divorce after many years of marriage).
Mostly I wanted a sense of how patient most players are. I got that from Jeff and so much more. The shark analogy was really useful; I just hadn’t thought of it that way before. And the advice on assessing the man’s interest in non-sex time is fantastic. The few times I’ve rushed into sex with someone I felt a connection with, I spent hours afterwards trying to assess his feelings, whether it was just about the sex, etc. So waiting long enough to get a better read on his interest in non-sex time could spare me at least some of that angst. Seems so simple — doh! of course! But I must admit that I find dating so challenging and confusing at times that a reminder like this can be clarifying! Thank you, thank you!
Comment from Mark
Time October 9, 2009 at 2:26 pm
This is really late to the party, but from a man’s perspective, why would having sex with a woman make me lose interest in her? Men like sex. We like having a sex partner. My experience is that sex makes me want more sex. And sex gives the relationship a level of intimacy that you don’t get otherwise.
I’m not really a player, though, so I don’t understand that mentality. Maybe those guys just want a another notch on the bedpost. Maybe they have alternate sex always lined up.
Me, when a relationship ends, I’m alone. I’m back to dating again when I’m ready for that. So if I meet a nice woman that I’m attracted to and we end up in bed, I want to see her again.
Comment from mmagnolia
Time October 9, 2009 at 8:08 pm
Dear Mr. Mark,
It’s never2late2party…OR just part!
Merci 4simplifying and translating some of The Drama! It seems So Simple!
Details of Your conclusion that “..when a relationship ends, I’m alone” …must be the juicy chapter. Happy Reading!
Comment from Joie
Time December 8, 2009 at 11:37 am
Also probably too late to the party but seriously? Someone who I’ve been on five dates with would still be a STRANGER to me? I think “the seductress” is holding back and is unnaturally fearful of being burned by men. That distrustful attitude will manifest in NOT attracting men who are ready for and open to love. Love includes physical intimacy…. sorry you can’t have a relationship without physicality and expect to become truly intimate with someone. It’s just not realistic or mature.
Comment from mmagnolia
Time December 14, 2009 at 11:00 pm
Dear Ms. Joie!
LoveLove that nametag!
However: Efficiency of “five dates” sorta depends on *who* be the Dates. Guys [and Gals] can weave. Also, “love” doesn’t necessarily include or require physical intimacy. It’s less merry, but physical intimacy doesn’t require Love!
Realism about “intimacy” is crucial on Our paths to becoming mature. Survival [of heart, mind, spirit] is critical for an evolving maturity. Bountiful discernment [Yes!.. even distrust] can be Our Darling Ally. Caution to wind can boomerang!
So: EverSweet Joie… as We Feel & Think!
Comment from abbie
Time January 8, 2010 at 9:48 pm
I would wait til he asks me to marry him. And there a tons of people who wait til marriage, they are called christians. One certainly can have intimacy and love without sex.
Comment from mike
Time March 4, 2010 at 4:05 pm
There are a good majority of guys who fall in love with a girl, in the true sense of the word. Sex is not even in the equation initially (I am not kidding you), in most cases guys just fall in love with a girl for her “prettiness” rather than her “sex appeal”. Sex comes later and as a natural outcome of the closeness that develops in the relationship.
There are a good many players out there and there are also guys who place sex as the priority. These guys generally abhor the word “love” in the first place, because they are more wired to the physical bonding rather than the emotional part. Such guys usually hook on to girls who share their vibe for physical intimacy. There are a plenty of girls who are in for short term relationship just for the sex part of it, and these guys are quick to spot such girls. The players usually keep off a girl who they know is on the look out for “love and bonding” rather than just fun and bang-bang.
As a girl, your own intuition should be good enough to know the guy’s intentions. If you are looking to fall in love and share a fulfilling relationship with a guy, then avoid a guy should starts off the “player” alarm in you. Players never bond emotionally, they are in a relationship for the “jazzy” stuff. Which might be a good thing if you are looking for a short term, passionate hook up, but not if you want committment and long-term bonding.
Comment from sally
Time March 16, 2010 at 9:07 pm
In response to Mark’s comments on March 4, 2010.
The best response I have heard from a man in a long time. I hope there are more guys like you out there!!!!
Comment from Janet
Time March 17, 2010 at 2:06 pm
In response, to ‘waiting for sex for 90 days’, well – I just got out of a dating relationship or shall I say, Thursday nites @ a dining-spot! Maybe this was a quasi, Gourmet club type of fella. We would go out to a nice place to eat, drink some wine, chat and he’d take me home with just a Good Nite kiss ! Yes, this went on for over 5 months…..I’m not hard on the eyes either ! ! He finally stopped calling & I’m onto the next one…..but will look forward to a more intimate’ relationship !
(heck, can you blame me)
Signed,
Ignored & Sassy in Connecticut
Comment from Adam
Time May 26, 2010 at 10:03 pm
I agree with the you can have sex any time you choose to. If you don’t want to wait don’t wait. Sometimes you will just have to be prepared for what might come after.
Like you said some guys don’t even know they don’t want a relationship. I have seen this many times and unfortunately have fallen victim to this as well. It is natural for a person to be attracted to someone else and have sexual tension that they need released. Since it is unacceptable to just have sex with someone your body will find the solution that is acceptable for you and her; that is you think you want a relationship and most guys actually believe it. Then after the need is fulfilled they don’t lose the feelings they had towards you although that is how it seems. What happens is that your body doesn’t want what it did anymore and the rationalizations behind the “relationship” just disappear.
If he has feelings for you before he will after.
Great post.
Comment from K.c.
Time March 6, 2011 at 8:50 pm
This is such tricky subject matter (and obviously I’m commenting way after the fact because I’ve just stumbled onto this site)…anyway, I must agree with Adam (of the May ’10 post) that if you don’t want to wait and the feeling is mutual, then you should go for it, while being prepared for the consequences. You know what sucks? Waiting for months to have sex with a guy who you’ve meshed with on every plane to find out once ‘the time’ has arrived that you are sexually incompatible. That, to me, is bad news. As a rather libidinous female I must say that I am not physically or emotionally inclined to wait very long…not sure what that makes me – besides realistic with myself. My non-intercourse stint which lasted all of 8 months left me time to assess who I was a sexual being and allowed me the realization that, at least in my experience, it doesn’t make a difference, much like Jeff originally stated.
Comment from K.c.
Time March 6, 2011 at 8:50 pm
This is such tricky subject matter (and obviously I’m commenting way after the fact because I’ve just stumbled onto this site)…anyway, I must agree with Adam (of the May ’10 post) that if you don’t want to wait and the feeling is mutual, then you should go for it, while being prepared for the consequences. You know what sucks? Waiting for months to have sex with a guy who you’ve meshed with on every plane to find out once ‘the time’ has arrived that you are sexually incompatible. That, to me, is bad news. As a rather libidinous female I must say that I am not physically or emotionally inclined to wait very long…not sure what that makes me – besides realistic with myself. My non-intercourse stint which lasted all of 8 months left me time to assess who I was as a sexual being and allowed me the realization that, at least in my experience, it doesn’t make a difference, much like Jeff originally stated.
Comment from mmagnolia
Time March 7, 2011 at 10:08 pm
WellWell, Dearie ‘K.c.”!
Hereabouts, my “tricky subject matter” is understanding why some [of us] more “libidinous” folk use the word *suck* to define something as repulsive.
P’haps owing to A Simple Libido, am supposing that AnyJoy of *suck* is similar whether one is a Baby or a Lover!
Thus, am supposing that Most of Us-here would agree that toward anyone’s end [or any! crevice nearby], *sucking* is a Good Thing!
Merci4affording a song2remind us that any “suck” is a natural, organic Sweet!
Sooo, let’s hold TheWord as a “Dear”, and
Smile2Welcome… Songs & Sucks!
Comment from mmagnolia
Time March 7, 2011 at 10:30 pm
Footnote, Dear K.c.,
w/condolence on moments of chagrin…
Some deep familiarity w/partner prospects [pre-foreplay] could curtail disappointments….
T’is possible!
Be sucked by Optimism!
Pingback from When To Have Sex « Daughter of Omi's Blog
Time April 13, 2011 at 10:19 pm
[...] Manslations, How Long to Wait for It? [...]
Comment from torrents
Time May 30, 2011 at 1:23 am
Honestly you don’t have to wait til you’re married that’s the opinion of others. Whenever you feel ready to have sex with your significant other is when you have sex. But make sure that that’s what you want b/c I made that mistake with my ex. I should’ve waited for the guy I’m with now.
Comment from mmagnolia
Time May 30, 2011 at 8:53 pm
Dear(Lady\Gent) *torrents*,
Of course, t’is “opinion”; t’is ALL opinion!
That means we walk hereabouts with kegs of salt, and get greater Exercise!
My youngest notion is that it’s really Not Only the issue of length of time to wait for “it” [whatever our Real "it" may be].
Location, Location [as Ari Onassis sang of his homesteads] is an equal issue.
*Location* meaning where One is at a particular moment–One’s state of mind.
Also: T’is ALLways best 2B “sure” that we want what we dream we want–even on that 3rd slice pizza!
Smile2Share A Slice and…Buon Appetito!
Comment from Helsta
Time July 18, 2011 at 7:12 pm
Just to weigh in on this topic (albeit very late….)
I completely agree with Jeff- if a guy does the proverbial “disappearing act” after sex, then it’s probably not the sex which changed anything. Unless, of course, it was terribly, terribly bad, but I doubt that a decent man who was looking for a genuine relationship would be “put off” by some less than earth shattering sex with a new partner….
In a way, I think that sex can be useful in helping to distinguish the men who are time wasters from those who are likely to stick around.
Comment from mmagnolia
Time July 22, 2011 at 9:03 pm
Dear Helstra,
T’is never2late 4goodwords!
Yes…men who “stick around” are heavenly and distinguished!
Sooo, let’s conserve any “terribly, terribly bad” sex for the scammers!
Enjoy Delicacies, Here…and Yonder!
Comment from dora
Time September 27, 2011 at 12:59 am
i congratulate you on this accurate article! it is 100% true, as far as my experience goes. a guy knows pretty well if he is going to rush off after the sex before he initiates it. BUT good sex can occasionally unexpectedly unleash his inner determination to pursue more than he thought of in the beginning. the sad thing is something you mention in one of the last paragraphs “There’s no great way to weed them out because they don’t even know they’re not serious themselves.” – that’s the main problem here. and from experience i can say that i’ve begun to assume this fact about every man i interact with on an intimate level (at the start of a relationship). until something happens (something he does) that proves his loyalty and determination (and his lack of doubts) to me. but the road up to there can be tricky and hard.
Comment from mmagnolia
Time September 29, 2011 at 8:32 pm
Dear “dora”!
When *we* men/women know ourselves, 3/4s of relating is Done…as in: To Thine ownSelf be True!
Sounds “tricky” to do fancy interacting w/someone [intimate R not] on basis of facts assumed but not evidenced in-hand.
MerciBouquets…U leave me fondling my neurons on that one, but they need that!
Am thinking that r’ship pool is easier2poison when/IF *we* “don’t even know” whether we’re “serious”.
4Sure….that leaves a question on w-h-a-t specifically is deemed “serious”.
Sometimes, Cigars and Trysts and are simply Cigars and Trysts! Slow music and flowers arrive when *we* try2turn cigars in2pretzels!
Lastly, why not hold out 4intimacy w/someOne of whom your assumption seems…incorrect!
Nonetheless, BlessU on EverHappyer Roads!
Comment from Natalie
Time November 21, 2011 at 3:26 am
Dear Jeff. Your book answers all my questions about men and how to interpret them behaviors. It is very simple. But, to my great regret, I realized that no man in my life I did not like! It’s very sad.It turns out that I was not for that love, no one wants to connect his life with me. I loved, but I have used … But anyway thanks for the book.
Comment from mmagnolia
Time December 12, 2011 at 9:51 pm
Dear Ms. Natalie!
Actually! Seems that Your *Future* re-men [after Your experiences + Prof. Jeff's book]…should be mostly GoodStuff!
Relax, recognize, and relish every New Moment. HappyNewCheers!
Comment from Arlington Locksmiths
Time February 23, 2012 at 4:50 am
Your web page is without question one of the greatest . Total appearance of the site is definitely wonderful .
Comment from Selena
Time June 27, 2009 at 9:41 am
I have to give Jeff credit for trying to answer this question – because I don’t believe there really is a definitive answer to it. Sometimes you know quite quickly when someone “isn’t for you”. Other times it may take weeks or months. Since sex is part of getting to know someone, you may not discover until after you’ve been sleeping together, that “Gee, this isn’t a relationship I want.” I’ve felt that way, so why should I be surprised if someone I dated felt that way about me?
Rejection stings. No way around it. And it’s tough when you are still highly attracted to someone who’s made it clear they don’t feel the same way. But I’m not convinced you can avoid rejection by delaying sex for 90 days. I like to feel comfortable with someone as a person before having sex and that usually involves spending hours talking and getting to know each other – several times a week if not daily. For me it’s not how long we’ve known each other, but how comfortable I’ve become with him. When all is said and done though, there is no predictor of how long a relationship will last.